Heather Kelly Posted 10 October , 2017 Share Posted 10 October , 2017 My grandfather David Ellison, from Dromore, Co.Down in N.Ireland, served throughout the Great War in the Irish Guards, service no. 3692. I'm a bit confused about his rank. I have a photograph of him taken during the war where he was wearing sergeant's stripes but when I found some records on another site it gave his rank as Lance Corporal. I'd also like to know which medals he would have been awarded. His own medals went to his son with whom I have lost touch. I have bought the British War Medal and the Victory Medal but I'm sure he would also have received one of the Star Medals. Granda was wounded twice and gassed. He married a Scottish nurse whom he met in hospital and they had a baby son but he lost them both in the great flu pandemic in 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 10 October , 2017 Share Posted 10 October , 2017 Heather, His medal index card http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=ZjC1418&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=medalrolls&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=DAVID&gsfn_x=1&gsln=ELLISON&gsln_x=1&MS_AdvCB=1&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=2&uidh=9y4&pcat=MIL_AWARDS&fh=2&h=55596&recoff=9 10&ml_rpos=3 shows David was awarded only the British War and Victory Medals, no Star. He was also awarded a Solver War Badge because he was discharge from the Army due to illness or injury {probably gassing}. The Silver War Badge Roll https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2456/wo329_636897_0829-00250?pid=395552&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DZjC1414%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DSilverWarBadgeMedals%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26_F8007A65%3D3692%26_F8007A65_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3D9y4%26pcat%3DMIL_AWARDS%26fh%3D4%26h%3D395552%26recoff%3D41%2042%26ml_rpos%3D5&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=ZjC1414&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true shows that he enlisted on 03/02/1911, and was discharged on 23/02/1919. His highest rank was Acting Lance Corporal. Technically this was not a rank but an appointment. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 10 October , 2017 Share Posted 10 October , 2017 His Medal Index Card does not include a Star. Indicating he only served overseas after the end of 1915. Pte and L/Cpl are the only ranks showing on the MIC. It indicates he was given a Silver War Badge. The medal roll itself adds nothing useful.There are some service docs for him available on ancestry however. These indicate he was in France in 1915. So a little research for another medal roll entry is required as it would seem he was due a 1914/15 Star and it was never issued. The docs cover mainly his discharge in 1919. It shows 2 GSWs but does not mention gassing on a quick look over. GSWs can be gunshot or shrapnel wounds. It reveals he had a severe case of syphilis early in the war. It also shows his son Samuel died aged about 1 month in March 1917. That to me is too early to have died of the spanish flu http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=IQl6074&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=britisharmy&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=david&gsfn_x=0&gsln=ellison&gsln_x=1&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=1&uidh=aoc&MSV=1&pcat=39&fh=3&h=304821&recoff=&ml_rpos=4 Do you have ancestry? Have you seen these docs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kelly Posted 10 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2017 Thanks Mark. I have Ancestry and I've just printed out these documents. You're right his son died in March 1917. His wife in 1918. I believe he was gassed and it affected his lungs for the rest of his life. I'm going to get the Silver War Badge and see if I can find evidence that he was due a 1914/15 Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kelly Posted 10 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2017 (edited) Thanks Alf. I wonder why he was wearing 3 stripes on a home leave in Dromore. I was always told that he enlisted in 1911. He may have been at one Trooping of the Colour. There's another story which has always been in the family but I can't vouch for its authenticity. The Irish Guards were chosen to carry the coffin of a very famous military hero, I don't know his name. They couldn't find 6 or 8 Guardsmen exactly 6 ft tall. Granda was 5ft 11ins 5/ 8th inches and he was picked. Edited 11 October , 2017 by Heather Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 10 October , 2017 Share Posted 10 October , 2017 Heather, Perhaps you could post the photograph on the forum. We may be able to find something out from it. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kelly Posted 10 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2017 I'm afraid I don't have a scanner so I can't post the photo on the forum. I was told he was on a recruiting drive. After the war he was asked to join the Black and Tans but refused. He would never have done the things those men did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 10 October , 2017 Share Posted 10 October , 2017 Hi, I note what is said above about him being L/Cpl but his MIC days A/Cpl. In the Brigade of Guards a L/Cpl has 2 stripes rather than the usual one. IIRC an acting Cpl (oft called Lance Sergeant) would have 3 stripes. That might explain the photo in your possession. Good Luck Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kelly Posted 11 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2017 Thanks Steve, That must be the explanation for the 3 stripes. How I wish now that I have devoted so much more time to my Granda and his stories but he died when I was still quite young. Now I find the things I thought so important in my young life to be so trivial compared to the remarkable man whom I was privileged to know. I'm so thankful today to be able to learn so much about him. If only I had had the time to hear these stories from his own lips. Better late than never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 11 October , 2017 Share Posted 11 October , 2017 On 10/10/2017 at 11:35, Heather Kelly said: The Irish Guards were chosen to carry the coffin of a very famous military hero, I don't know his name. Quite possibly Field Marshal Earl Roberts VC KG, the first Colonel of the Irish Guards and the last Commander-in-Chief of the British Army. He died during a visit to the Indian troops on the Western Front in November 1914, and is buried in St Paul's Cathedral. Se this report: http://www.garenewing.co.uk/angloafghanwar/articles/roberts_funeral.php Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kelly Posted 11 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 11 October , 2017 That's very interesting Ron. I don't suppose there's any way we could find the names of the Irish Guardsmen and maybe even a photograph of them. What a silly girl I was not to listen and record Granda's stories. What I'd give to spend just one more day with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 11 October , 2017 Share Posted 11 October , 2017 I doubt that you will find their names listed, except possibly in The Times for the day after the funeral at St Paul's. For a picture, your best bet would probably be The Illustrated London News. The British Newspaper Library at Colindale should have copies, and they may be searchable or downloadable online. Good luck! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 11 October , 2017 Share Posted 11 October , 2017 Hi Heather, To go with the links already posted, Forces War Records have a record for David, which says that he was admitted to the Middlesex War Hospital on 9th December 1917, suffering from a wounded left leg/fractured fibula. It appears to read that he was discharged on 25th February 1918, and sent on a furlough to the Command Depot. At the time he had 6 years 9 months service (with 6 months in the field), and was a Lance Corporal in number 1 Company, 1st Battalion, Irish Guards. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kelly Posted 12 October , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 October , 2017 Can anyone give me the date of Lord Roberts' funeral? The clipping says he died on 30th Sept but not the funeral date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 12 October , 2017 Share Posted 12 October , 2017 He actually died on 14 November 1914 and was buried on 19 November. 30 September 1832 was his birthday. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kelly Posted 6 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 6 November , 2019 My Grand father David Ellison served in the Irish Guards 1911 to 1919. Thanks to members of the GWF I have traced his war records. (Also the unfortunate news that he had a serious case of syphilis-I could have happily lived out my life without this unexpected information) Now I am trying to trace his birth record. He was born on 18th October 1889 in Dromore, Co.Down. But no site so far can trace this. Which sites should I try? Just now, Heather Kelly said: My Grand father David Ellison served in the Irish Guards 1911 to 1919. Thanks to members of the GWF I have traced his war records. (Also the unfortunate news that he had a serious case of syphilis-I could have happily lived out my life without this unexpected information) Now I am trying to trace his birth record. He was born on 18th October 1889 in Dromore, Co.Down. But no site so far can trace this. Which sites should I try? I am pleased to see that I have now been promoted to the rank of Sergeant. A rank Grandad never reached being stuck as Lance Corporal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 November , 2019 Admin Share Posted 6 November , 2019 To avoid repetition and confusion, I have merged your new topic into the existing one about your Grandfather. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 6 November , 2019 Share Posted 6 November , 2019 Heather, David's birth certificate is here, although dated 19th October 1889. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02456/1912551.pdf Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard_Lewis Posted 6 November , 2019 Share Posted 6 November , 2019 Good man, Alf! Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kelly Posted 6 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 6 November , 2019 14 hours ago, alf mcm said: Heather, David's birth certificate is here, although dated 19th October 1889. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02456/1912551.pdf Regards, Alf McM Thank you very much Alf. That's what I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEssGee Posted 6 November , 2019 Share Posted 6 November , 2019 Although it doesn't name them, this seems to confirm that 8 tall Irish Guardsmen carried the coffin of Lord Roberts at least part of the way. "From Folkstone the coffin went to his home at Ascot, where a more private ceremony for the family was held, and then the coffin proceeded (on the gun carriage that Roberts' own son had died trying to save in South Africa at Colenso) to Ascot Station: "Behind the coffin came Lady Aileen Roberts, and among others who followed were Lord Roberts' son-in-law, Major Lewin, Colonel M. W. Sherston, Colonel Sir Neville Chamberlain, and Lord Roberts' private secretary, Mr. Fergusson. Members of the local detachment of the Red Cross, Boy Scouts, boys from the Gordon Boys' Home, and the Church Lad's Brigade also formed part of the procession... ...The coffin was lifted to the shoulders of the eight tall bearers from the Irish Guards, under command of Captain Lord de Vesci, and by them laid in the saloon carriage in the special train." This train took Roberts' body to Charing Cross Station." http://www.garenewing.co.uk/angloafghanwar/articles/roberts_funeral.php Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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