"A Soldier of the Great War - Known unto God" = Is there a freely searchable database of such graves?

[Fattyowls]

Thanks Matlock. The section of the battlefield where the 18th December attack took place became what was known as the breastworks sector because the water table was so high it flooded the trenches in the winter. Just further north at Bois Grenier the breastworks were constructed behind the original front line trench, leaving an abandoned flooded section in front. I seem to remember a similar abandoned trench giving some cover to the Australian survivors of the Fromelles action. The breastworks were being constructed in early 1915, so post dated the truce on the 19th.

 

Ypres Reservoir was itself a concentration cemetery, mostly from the three smaller plots around the prison. The reservoir name came from the town water tower which stood on the site and was chosen I believe because the original cemetery names contained the word prison which would I suspect have upset the relatives of those buried there. But like you I am always happy to be corrected.

 

The thread is really proving to be very educational, thanks again.

 

Pete.

[laughton]

Curiosity said I had to look at these sheets, as I had never looked at them from the aspect of movement from 36.N.6 to 28.I.7.

 

I should have been looking there for Canadians that were lost in 36.N.2 and 36.N.9 (Rue Petillon) in February-March 1915. An example would be Pte. Edward Callan #7129 from 20 February 1915. He was killed near at Rue du Bois 36.N.2 while the Canadians were training - attached to 2nd Bn York & Lancaster Regiment. As I have mentioned, I hunted for Private Montanelli from the 13th Battalion for a long time and then found him in the Cabaret Rouge British Cemetery.

 

For future use, these are the COG-BR sheets with the 36.N map coordinates. I see some Australians here as well, so @Becstar might be interested in these as well! I have to assume from looking at these that they did not always correctly mark if they were referring to Sheet 28 or Sheet 36. Wonder why they moved the Aussie from Tyne Cot British Cemetery to the Ypres Reservoir North Cemetery (7.B.1A - COG-BR 1838980).

 

There are a number of RWR men scattered in these locations.

 

 

I wonder if the lad in 6.D.25 is Private Bonham #1450 of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment? They may have missed the "1" on the spoon, if it was his spoon. I have not checked to see if they were still at that location on 29 October 1914.

 

There is one in 9.F.39 that was from way up north on Sheet 12 (COG-BR 1838930).

[Matlock1418]

14 minutes ago, laughton said:

For future use, these are the COG-BR sheets with the 36.N map coordinates.

Thank you for your reply and its contents - I am sure many will be interested in these, and not just me.

15 minutes ago, laughton said:

There are a number of RWR men scattered in these locations

Had seen the examples - and previously got me thinking

17 minutes ago, laughton said:

I wonder if the lad in 6.D.25 is Private Bonham #1450 of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment? They may have missed the "1" on the spoon, if it was his spoon. I have not checked to see if they were still at that location on 29 October 1914.

I've not got the 1RWR war diary so can't say - seem plausible at first glance though

If so, I wouldn't know how to make the case effectively to CWGC

Onwards ...

[laughton]

11 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

I've not got the 1RWR war diary so can't say - seem plausible at first glance though

 

I should have put titles on the thumbnails - he is first column, third from the top.

 

He is at 36.N.6.c.95.85 which is about 750 yards north of Bas Maisnil. The war diary says they were near Houplines 36.C.22 on the 19th, so on the northeast fringe of Armentieres, unless that is just a general sector reference. Interesting that they kept score, as they report on the 28th that they got 4 Germans by sniping and lost 1 of their own "so we finished 3 up". There is a sketch of their location, just need to place it on a map. They also mention Frelinghien 36.C.11 and the Seaforth's, also 10th Brigade 4th Division. That would place them further to the northwest of Houplines and there is a road reference "from Houplines". There is another reference on the sketch to the main road to Lille 36.Q.1 which tiles in with Frelinghien. I think that places them on near the railway to the west of Le Touquet in 36.C.9, well outside the area of N.6 where the remains were recovered.

 

I checked some of the 20 casualties in that period of October from 1/RWR and that agrees with those at the Strand Military Cemetery (CWGC Link and COG-BR 2154724).

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, laughton said:

I should have put titles on the thumbnails - he is first column, third from the top.

I earlier went left to right top to bottom - got there in the end though! ;-)

 

3 hours ago, laughton said:

I wonder if the lad in 6.D.25 is Private Bonham #1450 of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment? They may have missed the "1" on the spoon, if it was his spoon. I have not checked to see if they were still at that location on 29 October 1914.

1 hour ago, laughton said:

He is at 36.N.6.c.95.85 which is about 750 yards north of Bas Maisnil. The war diary says they were near Houplines 36.C.22 on the 19th, so on the northeast fringe of Armentieres, unless that is just a general sector reference

 To 36.N.6.c.95.85 from Houplines 36.C.22 - Quite a difference/way to go for a burial.

Yet originally so very close to the original multiple burials of "RWR at 36.N.a.95.90 that eventually went to YRC

 

So who was he with a spoon 450???

Strange I can't find a Bonham 1450 [as per CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/874733/bonham,-herbert ] on my other main database based on MIC???

Or even under a search with just 1450 on CWGC

There is a MIC for Herbert Bonham S/119 of the Royal West Kent RWK [c/w RWR] but anyway he was apparently KiA 9/2/15 and seemingly might have been from Islington, London and/or Kent.???

No GRRF or concentration report on his own page at CWGC for our suggested HB 1RWR 1450 - So where have CWGC got him from?

Hey ho, perhaps going off on a tangent!  [of course such forays have been known to turn up diamonds]

 

Edit BTW - 2RWR were in Klein Zillebeke - Bailleul region 29/10/1914 but no entry in 2RWR WD for that specific day - a long way off so grave 6.D.25 seem to remain a query UBS

Edited 1 November , 2019 by Matlock1418
edit BTW

[laughton]

5 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Strange I can't find a Bonham 1450

 

He is here on "UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 for Herbert Bonham 1914-1915 Warwick 247001-248500".

 

So is the other one you found, so there are two (2) of them. There it says he is MISSING on 26 August 1914, not 29th October 1914.

 

That makes the case even worse as they are at St.Quentin 62b.T.14 / Ham 66d.K.26 sector (war diary page 7 of 776). He might have been captured, but I do not see him on the ICRC database, even though they mix Banham, Bonham and Bunham.

 

A new mystery develops!

 

He does show up on a "1450" search (CWGC Link), unless you did what I just did and put his NUMBER in the LAST NAME box. 

 

Captured or buried by German 1st Warwicks ended up in 57b in August 1914 (COG-BR 2187237).

Edited 1 November , 2019 by laughton
added 57b

[laughton]

It is listed as Herbert Boneham in the "UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919". There the date is 29 October 1914, not sure where everyone gets the date of death.

 

That spelling results in the finding of the MIC: "British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 A-Z Birrell - Brazell Bone, J - Bonney, Wilfred George M M".

[laughton]

On 29/10/2019 at 17:50, Matlock1418 said:

• How do you find those casualty numbers [for the avoidance of any doubt - not service numbers], by cemetery, of those buried there and potential unit details of those un-named / those under a headstone - "A Soldier of the Great War" or "A Soldier of the Blankshire Regiment" ?
• Is there a searchable database etc. for the unknowns of a specific unit such as the "Blankshire Regiment" by cemetery/by theatre/by nation etc.??
• Have I missed something really, really obvious???

 

The only real solution is to download the CWGC database and then go back and fill in the UNKNOWNS from the COG-BR documents. This is how I got started in this process back in 2014 when I was looking for missing men from MASSEY ONTARIO in the Vis-en-Artois Cemetery. Here is the spreadsheet that you can download and see how the process works:

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/0nr6pvdbxudnv6c/Vis-en-Artois_British_Cemetery_Houcourt.xlsx/file

 

Here is a sample. Note that this is from the tab named GRAVE, where I have added all the plots, rows and graves that had KUGs. That, if you don't know is "Known Unto God" which is on all their headstones. My ultimate goal, which I have done for a number of cemeteries is to add the trench map coordinates for each unknown, so you can search for men lost in a specific area.

 

 

Sort of like this from the Nine Elms Military Cemetery near Thelus:

 

 

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, laughton said:

He does show up on a "1450" search

Herbert BONHAM 1450 Royal Warwickshire Regiment - Was just using his number 1450 - I missed him ... doh" :-(

He has a British Pension Card  https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/image/668293851  but it says notification of death 1.10.14 ???

Widow: Ethel Norah DUGGAN (remarried) d.o.b 16.5.96 - "Noted for Novel" [which is now thought to be for complex cases]

 

You will like this - There is a Cpl RHJ Duggan cited in the Remarks box along with Can Exp Force 12th Battn. [also I don't recognised this but also Reg No 7848/16 R 22] and I think a £51.14.3 Gratuity issued 17.2.16

I'm not going to hazard - you will be more adept I am sure - no I am, a bit ... really skimmed the CEF file ... something like ...  

There is a Cpl Richard Henry DUGGAN CEF 22989 [dies 30 or 31.8.18]

Had married in June / second half of 1915 I think

with a widow Mrs Ethel Norah DUGGAN at 6 Athelstan Rd, Folkstone, Kent address as per CWGC and getting a Canadian pension

but with Ethel Norah having a further new surname of MYALL on CWGC and later in his CEF file.

= No wonder the British pension was Noted for Novel!

Existed and on CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/874733/bonham,-herbert = Ploegsteert Memorial

 

H BONEHAM 1450 RWR on MIC [and I noted on your SDGW above] - seems a likely typo for Bonham - 14 Star & Clasp

Seems a bit of a figment - or is it?

But where is BWM & VM?

 

Herbert BONHAM S/119 Royal West Kent - from MIC

There is a British Pension card https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/image/668293849?terms=1019,herbert,bonham - and it reads G/119 1st Bn on PC to me.

Death 9.2.15 Killed in action

Mother: Mrs Mary Jane BONHAM

45 Lonsdale Sq, Barnsley, Y[orkshire]

A 5/- pw pension

 

Existed and on CWGC

S/119 [or G/119] showing on CWGC = S/119 https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/928401/bonham,-herbert = Menin Gate

 

But as for that 450 spoon at 36.N.6.c.95,85 = ???

 

Thanks for your latest post above - I must try to digest and get back to the main project

:-)

Edited 1 November , 2019 by Matlock1418
addit