Is this a Durham Light Infantry cap badge?

[Carnkie]

I have always believed this to be Private Albert Coulson, 23/122, Durham Light Infantry. He was killed on the 12th September, 1916.

However, I am not convinced that this is the correct cap badge.  Perhaps somebody might be able to identify the uniform and badge.

Albert did have a brother, Ernest but I have been unable to find out much about his military service. 

Albert was born in Dunston, Durham.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[sadbrewer]

19 minutes ago, Carnkie said:

I have always believed this to be Private Albert Coulson, 23/122, Durham Light Infantry. He was killed on the 12th September, 1916.

However, I am not convinced that this is the correct cap badge.  Perhaps somebody might be able to identify the uniform and badge.

Albert did have a brother, Ernest but I have been unable to find out much about his military service. 

Albert was born in Dunston, Durham.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

 

 

Not DLI....the lad's a horseman judging by the spurs and whip....possibly Royal  Artillery.

 

Edited 23 October , 2019 by sadbrewer

[Michelle Young]

Definitely Artillery 

 

Michelle 

[Carnkie]

Many thanks.

Now I need to find out why the family held on to this picture...

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Carnkie said:

Now I need to find out why the family held on to this picture...

Many soldiers and their families I suspect, my family definitely being one, often had photos of other members of the wider family - possibly his brother or cousin ??

 AND of neighbours/friends etc. - One of those??

Did he have any sisters? - could he be their fella ???

Did he marry? - Possible wife's boyfriend - before or after their marriage???  or after his death.

Just speculating ...

M

BTW - Photo = I initially also thought artillery from cap badge - also, aren't those puttees wound top down [certainly seem secured at the bottom] as per artillery, or do I mean cavalry or both??

Albert = CWGC website https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/283819/coulson,-albert/ has his number as 231122 but their GR and GRRF have as you cited 23/122 [I'm not familiar with DLI numbers] - I'm sure another GWF pal will be able to help clarify if necessary

His MIC for a BWM and a VM gives 23/122 - no theatre of war given or Star so overseas on/after 1 Jan 1916

His Pension card at Western Front Association / Ancestry - behind membership paywalls gives 23/122 - pension application [paid?] to his mother "Robertina" - same address as on CWGC.  Mother was given as Dependant - had his father died?

- change at CWGC is possible, if appropriate.  Time will tell

Edited 23 October , 2019 by Matlock1418
Additions

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, sadbrewer said:

brother, Ernest but I have been unable to find out much about his military service. 

 

2 hours ago, Carnkie said:

Albert was born in Dunston, Durham

Don't suppose you know the date of Ernest's birth or any civilian info on him do you. 

Always helpful if you can share as many other GWF pals can do wonders!

 

I have found an Ernest Coulson,

born 26 Feb 1901,

from Durham,

who was a grocer,

enlisted 1918

RAF #296126 - might be him ??? [from a brief glance at the transcription of a British RAF Airman's Record AIR79 - opening it might reveal more, one way or t'other]

Good luck

[Pat Atkins]

Theres a 1914-15 Star roll record for a 4483 2/AM E.H. Coulsen, Royal Flying Corps, disembarkation date (F&F) of 25.4.15; his mic gives the same info.

 

More hopeful, however, is 169325 Dvr Ernest Hugh Coulson, Royal Field Artillery, later 633167 Pte, Labour Corps.

 

Cheers, Pat.

Edited 23 October , 2019 by Pat Atkins

[sadbrewer]

12 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

 

Don't suppose you know the date of Ernest's birth or any civilian info on him do you. 

Always helpful if you can share as many other GWF pals can do wonders!

 

I have found an Ernest Coulson,

born 26 Feb 1901,

from Durham,

who was a grocer,

enlisted 1918

RAF #296126 - might be him ??? [from a brief glance at the transcription of a British RAF Airman's Record AIR79 - opening it might reveal more, one way or t'other]

Good luck

 

The 1901 census is showing the family as living at 23 Rothesay Terrace, Dunston.... Albert as being 6 yrs old and Ernest as 8yrs.

In 1911 they are at 228 Ravensworth Rd.

Rubina/Robertina nee Hayles is the boys stepmother.

It appears that sometime after 1911 his father and step mother move to Scotland.

A tree online is showing Ernest's birth as 2nd Jan 1893.

 

Edit....If the online tree is correct Albert's Father was married four times leaving behind a rather complicated tree.

A few Coulsons here from the Gateshead Absent voters list of 1918....one in the RA.

 

Edit 2...there is 46939 Dvr Ernest Coulson RA killed in 1916, but he was from Chesterfield so can probably be discounted. 

Edited 24 October , 2019 by sadbrewer

[Matlock1418]

57 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

The 1901 census is showing the family as living at 23 Rothesay Terrace, Dunston.... Albert as being 6 yrs old and Ernest as 8yrs.

 

That age / dob would seem to rule out Ernest Coulson RAF #296126

[Gunner Hall]

Albert death  is mentioned on page 126 of John Sheens "Durham pals, 18th, 19th and 22nd Battalions of the Durham Light Infantry in the Great War"  He is mentioned as being one of the original contingent of one of the bantam battalions.  Albert seems to have been a member of the  23rd DLI, hence “23/122” - the 23^rd was a reserve Battalion DLI formed from the   original  19^th (Bantam) DLI.    He seems to have found himself back with the 19^th. when he was killed on the Arras front 12/9/1916 

 

As Michelle and Matlock 1418 say the photo  shows one of the "Lords chosen ones". a gunner.   The whip , spurs and winding of the puttees are indicative of a driver.  So I'd say this is likely to be Alfred, 765366.

Edited 24 October , 2019 by Gunner Hall

[Pat Atkins]

BW &V Medal rolls have: 765366 Gnr (A/Bdr) Alfred Coulson RFA TF, previously 2902. No indication that he was a Driver, at least in terms of rank rather than role - no idea about RA conventions though, so might not be significant. No Star entitlement.

[Carnkie]

Many thanks for all the help and useful ideas.

I got the dates of birth from a birthday book belonging to a member of the family and as I recall, the photograph came from the same source.

i wonder if the soldier will turn out to be Ernest but more work will be required, I suspect.

Ernest was in Gateshead Mental Hospital at the time of the 1939 census and it shows that he was married. I thought I had seen somewhere that he had been wounded during the war (pension records?)  but I will need to make further checks.

 

 

[Carnkie]

Ernest Coulson, born 2 January 1893, son on Thomas Coulson. Step mother is Robertina.  

Thomas and Robertina move to Edinburgh.

Could it be that Ernest was in the Artillery and if so, where should I start to search?

Many thanks

[Gunner Hall]

Sadbrewer included a snapshot of the absent voters list for the Gateshead area in his post.  Ernest is shown to be serving in 141st company of the Labour Corps.  acconding to the entry at 

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-labour-corps-of-1917-1918/labour-companies-of-the-labour-corps/ the 141st company was originally the 3rd Infantry Labour Company of the Northamptonshire Regiment.   Ernest's number is right in the zone too for that unit.   BTW, The labour corps was founded in 1917, and contained men who were medically unfit for front line service at attestation - and men who became unfit due to war service..  Also, by 1917, a Dunston lad could find himself serving in a regiment with no local connection, so don't be put off ny the Northants link.  As Ernest would have been 24 in 1917,  he could have previous service, in the DLI or RA  and have transfered to the Labour Corps because of sickness./ wounds, 

Others will have greater knowledge, but the original photo seems to show someone who looks much younger than 24  IMHO,  and he's wearing an early pattern jacket with the reinforced shoulder patches.  I think some one who signed up in 1917 is more likely to have been issued the simplified pattern? 

As for further research, you could email the experts at http://www.royalpioneercorps.co.uk/rpc/history_main1.htm?LMCL=wh0q_A   with Ernests name and number, they might be able to give you a date when "84121"  number   was allocated, and where 141st Labour Company served.

Edited 25 October , 2019 by Gunner Hall