Military Medal and Special Constabulary Group - Help

[AM87]

Have recently come into possession of a Military Medal Group to 99598 Bdr Harold Pidcock .  His military medal is engraved with the details of 124 Heavy Battery Royal Garrison Artillery.  The medal group is complete (MM, BWM and VM) however it also has special constabulary long service medal (George V) with with engraved to Harold Pidcock.  I cannot find any additional information on the chap apart from in the Gazette he has Chesterfield in brackets next to his name.  Could anyone help me?

 

1 - a copy of his Military Medal card would be appreciated

2 - how do i research the Special Constabulary Long Service Medal

3 - can anyone assist with tracking down any paperwork for this guy?

[Michelle Young]

Just a reminder of the forum rules that members should not use the forum as a platform to ask parties who are subscribers to sites to download or post material on their behalf 

 

Michelle 

[Ken Lees]

You could try asking on the British Medals Forum. Plenty of experts on there. I would suggest including a photo of the medals which will help to tie down possible dates of issue for the special constabulary medal. 

 

There are no centrally-held records for the SC medals, so you would need to try to narrow down the possibilities of which force he served in. Few forces have records, though. 

[The Inspector]

Hi AM87 and all

As far as I can see this is the only one that fits the dates..

Look at the 1911 census, there is a Harold Pidcock , 17 yrs, a servant at "Heath", Chesterfield. He was born "1894". 1939 register has a Harold Pidcock, a butcher born 23.12.1893. married Evelyn Mary Morton Scott, , He had a shop at 36 Kingsway, Kirkby in Ashfield. Marred. 1920 Somercotes, Derbyshire. He died 5th March, 1962 address, 141 Diamond Ave, Kirkby in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire.

He was an Acting Sgt...Medal Rolls

The SC Long Service was instituted on 30th August, 1919. 

Regards Barry

Edited 10 October , 2019 by The Inspector

[PRC]

26 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

1939 register has a Harold Pidcock, a butcher born 23.12.1893.

 

I've only ever seen the actual images of the 1939 National Register on FindMyPast but hopefully the same on Ancestry - I don't currently have a subscription to either so can't check. The document has usually been scanned in such a way that you can see the first column of the facing page, which is potentially the relevant bit if you are looking for a Special Constable - it appears to be used to record Civil Defence roles during WW2 - sample attached.

 

It doesn't appear to have been completed at the time the National Register was taken at the end of September 1939, but instead appears to have been filled in as part of a subsequent use of the Register - my guess would be when it was used for the issue and control of I.D cards.

 

If he was a Special Constable outside the war years then that won't help, but would seem odd if it was before the war, (you'd expect him to be taken back on) and given his age by the end of the war its difficult to see him being accepted let alone serving long enough to get a medal for it.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

[Medaler]

48 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Hi AM87 and all

As far as I can see this is the only one that fits the dates..

Look at the 1911 census, there is a Harold Pidcock , 17 yrs, a servant at "Heath", Chesterfield. He was born "1894". 1939 register has a Harold Pidcock, a butcher born 23.12.1893. married Evelyn Mary Morton Scott, , He had a shop at 36 Kingsway, Kirkby in Ashfield. Marred. 1920 Somercotes, Derbyshire. He died 5th March, 1962 address, 141 Diamond Ave, Kirkby in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire.

He was an Acting Sgt...Medal Rolls

The SC Long Service was instituted on 30th August, 1919. 

Regards Barry

 

Not sure why you describe it as "Heath" - Heath is a real village (in my neck of the woods). The church there has a really nice memorial plaque and, though not Great War related, one of the most wonderful stained glass windows that I have ever seen. It is right beside the M1 at Junction 29.

 

Cheers,

Mike

[The Inspector]

Hi Mike and all

"Heath" is given as the address on the 1911 census Schedule. "Heath, Chesterfield."  Harold Pidcock is a Domestic Servant for Samuel Hardwick whose occ is "Butchering" He died 1938, address Main St, Heath. The original entry for Harold's occ. was also "Butchering" but has been crossed through and reclassified.

14 hours ago, Medaler said:

 

Not sure why you describe it as "Heath" - Heath is a real village (in my neck of the woods). The church there has a really nice memorial plaque and, though not Great War related, one of the most wonderful stained glass windows that I have ever seen. It is right beside the M1 at Junction 29.

 

Cheers,

Mike

Regards Barry

Peter, 

He could have served as a Special between demob. and 1939. He could have completed some duties during WW1 before being called up.

If he served as a Special during WW2 (3.9.1939 -31.12.1945), there was no upper age limit, and completed not less than 50 duties per annum, then one year counted as three. The medal is issued for 9 yrs service so he would have qualified

Regards Barry

Edited 11 October , 2019 by The Inspector

[PRC]

24 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Hi Mike and all

"Heath" is given as the address on the 1911 census Schedule. "Heath, Chesterfield." 

 

May simply be a question of mis-communication.As it's not clear from the context that you are quoting from the document, the presense of double quotation marks takes on the secondary function of implying that the validity of the information is in doubt. Thus "1894" would fit the bill - this is a year calculated by the genealogy website and appears nowhere on the original source document.

 

If it was the name of a dwelling, i.e. 'Heath House', I then expect to see it in single quotation marks. In this case there are no quotation marks in the original census return declaration and the first five occupants recorded on the return are all shown as born Heath, Derbyshire. Apologies to Mike if I've mis-interpreted his response, but thats how I read his comment - what was in doubt about "Heath" that justified this implication that is needed confirmation.

 

15 hours ago, The Inspector said:

He died 5th March, 1962

 

40 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

He died 1938

 

Is the first one Harold and the second his former employer or have I got confused? Is the second is Harold then obviously not on the 1939 National Register.

 

BTW - any chance of checking whether the Harold on the 1939 National Register does have a Civil Defence role showing on the original document as that may still be a valid match for the man awarded the medals.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[The Inspector]

Hi Peter,

You have posted the address given on the completed census form, I quoted from the Schedule, ie. the next page. Harold (Senior) on the 1939 register does not have any furher notes. Harold Pidcock died 1962. Samuel Hardwick died 1938. 

17 minutes ago, PRC said:

 

May simply be a question of mis-communication.As it's not clear from the context that you are quoting from the document, the presense of double quotation marks takes on the secondary function of implying that the validity of the information is in doubt. Thus "1894" would fit the bill - this is a year calculated by the genealogy website and appears nowhere on the original source document.

 

If it was the name of a dwelling, i.e. 'Heath House', I then expect to see it in single quotation marks. In this case there are no quotation marks in the original census return declaration and the first five occupants recorded on the return are all shown as born Heath, Derbyshire. Apologies to Mike if I've mis-interpreted his response, but thats how I read his comment - what was in doubt about "Heath" that justified this implication that is needed confirmation.

 

 

 

Is the first one Harold and the second his former employer or have I got confused? Is the second is Harold then obviously not on the 1939 National Register.

 

BTW - any chance of checking whether the Harold on the 1939 National Register does have a Civil Defence role showing on the original document as that may still be a valid match for the man awarded the medals.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Regards Barry

[PRC]

1 hour ago, The Inspector said:

You have posted the address given on the completed census form, I quoted from the Schedule, ie. the next page.

 

Barry,

 

Thanks for checking, much appreciated. My source, (Genes Reunited), only has a transcription of the Schedule, with no original image, so once again showing the importance of checking original documents

 

AM87,

 

1 hour ago, The Inspector said:

Harold (Senior) on the 1939 register does not have any furher notes.

 

On 07/10/2019 at 11:50, AM87 said:

it also has special constabulary long service medal (George V)

 

Odd that he doesn't have a wartime civil defence role but certainly not impossible. As the criteria seems to be nine years service - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Constabulary_Long_Service_Medal

and the medal shows George V his service presumably predates 1936 and as there are no clasps he didn't see enough subsequent service to qualify. The Wiki article says 10 years peacetime per clasp with wartime service counting as triple.

 

On 07/10/2019 at 11:50, AM87 said:

2 - how do i research the Special Constabulary Long Service Medal

 

So possible sources included Derbyshire Constabulary, although as I assume there is no direct family relationship and he died less than 100 years ago they may be very reluctant to release any files they have on him. Alternatively, my experience is that low level criminal prosecutions were brought by individual police officers at police courts. This includes special constables. As it seems likely he remained in the Derbyshire area it could be worth checking for local newspaper reports to see if his name crops up.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[AM87]

Hi all, thanks for your help.  I have had a look on the 1939 census for any indication of his police service and Derbyshire Council hold no records of Special Constabulary service.  I have trawled through newspapers but to avail so far.  The search continues!

[Medaler]

Sorry gents. My reasoning for highlighting that Heath is actually the name of a village was that (the way my mind works) "Heath" might just be construed as some random bit of heathland. It was actually in the village pub in Heath (the Elm Tree) that my wife and I first met.

 

Anyway, that aside, it suddenly occurred to me that I can add a bit on Heath. The plaque in the church is actually a Roll of Honour which I suddenly remembered includes "served and returned". There is no man of this name listed on it, perhaps indicating that he had left the village before the war? Granted, not a great help, but see attached picture of the plaque.

 

Regards to all,

Mike

[The Inspector]

Hi AM87 and all,

When Harold Pidcock married Evelyn Mary Norton Scott in 1920 he was shown on the Banns as a Bachelor of the parish of Somercotes. Evelyn as a spinster of the parish of St.Christopher, Ellistown. The marr. cert is shown as 7a, 290 Ashby de La Zouche.

Having trawled through the census returns I can only come up with Harold as previously posted. All the family trees on Ancestry show him with the same family although by. 1911  he is with the Hardwicks, none of the trees have this info. There are only 4 plain Harold Pidcocks  on the 1939 register.  The one born 12.6.1889 is actually Harold Irvine Pidcock. There are 2 who can be ruled out by d of b. one being Harold Pidcock's son, this leaves Harold born 21.12.1893. as the only contender.

Harold's wife Evelyn Mary Norton Scott, b. 26.8.1896, Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, is shown on the 1939 register as having remarried name Conway. She married a George Conway in 1968  @ Blackpool, Lancs. 10b, 959. Harold having died in 1962. Evelyn died 16th July 1975 @ Blackpool.....looking..

Harold was a witness at his brother, Wilfred Thompson Pidcock's wedding 22nd May.1912...

The MIC for A/Sjt 99598 RGA Harold Pidcock has no theatre of war and no mention of his MM although the Roll and page number are correct and MM is marked under his name on the roll.....

Regards Barry.

Edited 11 October , 2019 by The Inspector