DCLI Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 I have just bought a trio with a Territorial War Medal awarded to a member of the RA. His number on the TWM is 411 His other two medals, BWM and VM have 901891 All medals have RA but his MIC has RFA. His MIC only mentions his Territorial medal and calls it a TFE . It also mentions that this medal was gazetted - what does this mean? I realise that this medal was in place of a Star but why the gazette? Also his MIC makes no mention of his BWM and VM I would like to know why the TWM is referred to as a TFE on his MIC, why is there no mention to his other two medals. If he went to France at the beginning of the war and was under fire, is there a clasp to signify this, like on a Star? And what is the correct order for the medals to be mounted? - and what is the meaning of life Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 DCLI, It may be a case of split MIC's? Just a thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray hoggart Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 Hello, Were all Territorials entitled to a Territorials medal? Or, did having the 14/15 Star, British War medal and Victory medal disqualify you. Ray 23757155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDREW JUKES Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 oh dear, the card you have sounds very much like its the index for his territorial efficency medal, that is missing from the group hence a gazette date. if you care to post a scan of it i will be able to tell. of yes the order shown in your pic is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLI Posted 5 February , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2005 Whenever someone start a line, oh dear - my heart misses a beat. Here is the card to which I directed by the NA (PRO) website. How and where would I find his other MIC? regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 DCLI. That's a nice Trio you have there. There is NO clasp award for the TFWM, and the order in the pic is correct, as Andrew has stated. Ray. NO not all territoials were entitled to a "Territoial" medal. The qualifying criteria is something like this. TFWM. (As shown in DCLI' pic) All Territorial Force members who were embodied before Sept 1914, but had served Minimum 4 yrs service by this date, and also had served Outside the UK. TFEM. Awarded for a Minimum 12 yrs service. And Yes you are correct in saying that qualification for either 14 or 14-15 Star would disqualify you from a territoral medal, and vice versa. Hope this helps. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDREW JUKES Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 oh dear oh dear. yes sorry to say the card you have is for the territorial force efficency medal that is missing from the group. a high percentage of men who got the 3 medals you have also got the t.e.m as one of the requirements for the t.f.w.m was to be a pre-war t.f member and still be serving or rejoin the unit at the outbreak of war. and war service counted as double time. so 4 year war service becomes 8 years towards the 12 required to gain the t.f.e.m. as for checking his m.i.c its probably best to just enter his original 3 digit number from his t.f.w.m and see what that throws up. cheers andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDREW JUKES Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 in fact having just checked if you put in 411 howard on the online m.i.c service his m.i.c is the second one that comes up. thats a nice jump from cpl to b.q.m.sjt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLI Posted 5 February , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2005 Thanks for that. Not the end of the world. I may buy a loose one to make up the group. I still have to find the missing groups of my relatives so plenty to search the haystack for. Incidentally what are these two? TFEM or TEM? Am I looking for something like one of them? Why the Territorial Bar? Sorry to ask so much in one go. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupertx Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 in fact having just checked if you put in 411 howard on the online m.i.c service his m.i.c is the second one that comes up. thats a nice jump from cpl to b.q.m.sjt. Andrew... which website did you use for that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLI Posted 5 February , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2005 Thanks Andrew I have just downloaded his 411 MIc and it list his BWM, VW and TF, it also lists his battery 159th (I think that's what it is) Have a look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDREW JUKES Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 D.C.L.I, the oval one with ring suspender was introduced in 1908 with edward the 7th on the obverse and the words, TERRITORIAL FORCE EFFICENCY on the reverse this remained the same until 1922, (other than the change of monarch in 1911) when the words on the reverse changed and dropped the word force, this style was used until 1930 when it became the efficency medal, with many assorted suspender clasps, i.e territorial, milita, india, canada, army emergyency reserve, so the ones in your pics are either type one or two for the first (check the back) and the 1930-1937 gv issue for the second, hope that helps? clear as mud to me. RUPERTX national archives m.i.c,s on line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigantian Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 DCLI A nice group. The 159B on the MIC is a reference for the Medal Roll rather than the battery he served with. Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 Incidentally what are these two? TFEM or TEM? Why the Territorial Bar? Left is TFEM. Right is EM, (Effectively a TFEM from 1930 onwards). The "Territorial Bar Suspender" just denotes that it was a Territorial award. There are many various Suspender bars for this medal. Territorial, Militia, Canada, India etc. The Reverse of the TFEM is inscribed "Territorial Force Efficiency Medal". The Reverse Of the EM " For Efficient Service" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLI Posted 5 February , 2005 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2005 Andrew Is there any way of finding out which type 'my man' had? He was gazetted in 1919. Thanks everyone else. I have learnt a lot today - now I just need to remember it all. regards DCLI a.k.a Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDREW JUKES Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 anthony. if gazetted in 1919 it would of been a territorial force efficency medal with ring suspender and the words on the reverse as on your picture, oh yes and a green ribbon with a central yellow stripe, this was also changed in 1922 to the one with the yellow stripes to the edge, however if serving post 1922 one was supposed to change it to the new ribbon. cheers andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 I've been beaten up for this before.... but the TERRITORIAL FORCE Efficiency Medal (1908-21) and the TERRITORIAL Efficiency Medal (1921-30) .....look exactly the same from the front - only difference is the wording on the back. (See DCLI's posting, medal on left) The EFFICIENCY MEDAL (Territorial) - the one on the right - is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT medal (despite the same ribbon) instituted 1930. In it its first manifestation, the suspender said 'Territorial' 'Militia' and a whole range of Empire (Australia, Canada, Ceylon etc etc). Were you still serving, your qualifying service rolled into the new medal, so you COULD have one of each. The 'TEM' card is nothing to do with his TFWM. (Separate roll, held at PRO in original ledgers, not microfilms) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray hoggart Posted 6 February , 2005 Share Posted 6 February , 2005 Many thanks for answering my (off topic) question! As for the rest, aahh there's a lot to learn! Ray 23757155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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