Foot Guards SD Rank and "Trade" Badges unique?

[Muerrisch]

Please does anyone have firm evidence that Guards' badges diverged from the Ordnance issue arm badges from a very early date, possibly 1902? Essentially, a brown/buff thread rather than dirty white.

 

Background. It is certain [from an Army Council Instruction] that the colours of the threads used were unique from 1962. The inference from the ACI is that this may have been a continuation of previous practice. I have consulted several experts [on British Badge Forum, and Guards Museum] and they, together with our resident Frogsmile, believe the divergence is right back to our period.

 

Well and good, but somewhere out there someone has an SD jacket to the Guards complete with badges: what can it tell us?

Or someone has an AO or ACI which would provide hard facts.

Unfortunately no colour photography existed to help us.

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

Just to inform the debate, I enclose photos of Foot Guards NCOs and WOs wearing badges unique to them on their SD.  In the case of the colour images of circa 1918 QMS badges (allocated to QMS that year and previously worn by 2nd grade WOIs in specialist appointments of the support Arms only), note that one has predominantly off white thread and the other pale drab (brownish) thread.  The question is whether these differences were merely a makers variation, or whether the drab version was worn by Foot Guards only.  Evidence is scarce and it’s known that a variety of stripe patterns were used to meet higher than normal demand.

Edited 4 October , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

Thank you very much. Appeals for info. now lodged on British Badge Forum and GMIC.

 

The RSM is magnificent.

The sergeant with the P o W has the 1000 yard stare, and is possibly tasked with babysitting Edward.

Example of "modern brown", and  pre 1914 RSMs

[FROGSMILE]

Mostly post-war, including a drum major.  In the colour painting taken from life it’s interesting to note the use of the wartime variant for stripes incorporating cross-hatching.

 

Edited 4 October , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

I can now state with confidence that badges arm brown khaki [aka Guards pattern] can be dated back to 1930. This via sealed patterns.

Just a small gap to fill, 1902 to 1930.

[FROGSMILE]

34 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

I can now state with confidence that badges arm brown khaki [aka Guards pattern] can be dated back to 1930. This via sealed patterns.

Just a small gap to fill, 1902 to 1930.

 

1930 as per enclosed artwork.

 

Edited 5 October , 2019 by FROGSMILE