Who could join the University of London's OTC?

[Clear Bell]

Can anyone advise me about who/how a student from another institution (which did not award degrees) could join the University of London's OTC. I know of a number of those named in their Roll of Honour that definitely did not study there and while it's clear they must have wanted to become officers I am wondering on what basis they were accepted into the corps. I think quite a few were intending to become teachers: would that be a reason for accepting them?

 

Would also appreciate some information about whether this meant they could then gain commissions straightaway unless they were considered to be unsuitable or for some other reason, like they began serving?

 

Thanks

[charlie962]

is there no text in the Roll that explains this ? I know the question has been raised before on this forum but I cannot find old thread .

 

Charlie

[Clear Bell]

Not as far as I can see. Will take another look. Yes, I agree, I vaguely remember this kind of the thing being raised a few years ago but not been able to find anything specific.

[rolt968]

I suspect this may have been raised before in connection with William Slim who joined the Birmingham University OTC before WW1 although he was not a student. (I believe his brother was.)

RM

[Clear Bell]

Thanks, will try and track this down.

 

I've  checked the published Roll for the university's OTC and there is no explanation whatsoever about the inclusion of anyone not studying there.

 

I am pretty sure none of those I have been researching have any link to a sibling studying or relative working at the University of London.

[rolt968]

I wonder if this happened more often than we think. We would tend to miss it since the people concerned would not appear in the university roll of honour, since usually these are the universities' rolls of honour not the OTCs' rolls of honour.

RM

[Clear Bell]

Good point.

 

May just contact Senate House Library Special Collections and see if they've got any advice about this and any relevant documents they might hold.

[rolt968]

The University of London OTC could be particularly difficult as it may well have included men who were students in London who were studying as establishments which were not part of the university.

RM

[Clear Bell]

Yes, indeed. The men I am researching were studying somewhere else entirely - but on completion of their studies received diplomas, not degrees. But I suppose the diplomas may have been considered comparable to a degree, and that might, at least in part, begin to explain their association with the university's OTC?

 

I will try to sort out when each of them actually received commissions and see whether the OTC connection worked out for them in one way or another. I am sure at least one of them who I think was in the OTC late 1914 didn't receive a commissoin until the spring of 1916.

[Moonraker]

See Bocktok's post 2

 

here

 

Like Clear Bell (post 5 above), I have a vague recollection of  something like this being raised before - possibly about a man who was not a member of the university belonging to its OTC.

 

Moonraker

[Clear Bell]

Thanks for this. 

 

I am beginning to doubt that an explanation can be pinned down. I can see turning a blind eye to who might join an OTC makes sense when there might be a far more limited pool of men. But I am not entirely sure if this is the case for such a large university, especially at the beginning of the war when there was so much buzz and confidence about.

 

 

 

[charlie962]

There is one bit in the appendix of the Roll that shows the probable 'attached' institutions that were eligible:

 

 

Even so in 1909 there were 39 cadets 'not attached to any College or Institution.

 

Charlie

Edited 2 September , 2019 by charlie962

[rolt968]

2 hours ago, Clear Bell said:

Thanks for this. 

 

I am beginning to doubt that an explanation can be pinned down. I can see turning a blind eye to who might join an OTC makes sense when there might be a far more limited pool of men. But I am not entirely sure if this is the case for such a large university, especially at the beginning of the war when there was so much buzz and confidence about.

 

The "establishment" of various university OTCs was not the same. For example I think that some were one company and a few were two companies, but there were also medical units.

RM

[charlie962]

11 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

The "establishment" of various university OTCs was not the same

Roll again

 

[rolt968]

17 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Roll again

 

Thank you!

[Clear Bell]

Just read the latest posts. Interesting about those 39 cadets in 1909.

 

Have decided to see if any of the contemporary documentation held in LU's archive might clear things up. I know that's a long shot when so much has been lost and so much may have been common knowledge and never written down.

 

As always, thank you one and all for your help.

[PRC]

18 hours ago, Clear Bell said:

Yes, indeed. The men I am researching were studying somewhere else entirely - but on completion of their studies received diplomas, not degrees. But I suppose the diplomas may have been considered comparable to a degree, and that might, at least in part, begin to explain their association with the university's OTC?

 

So where were they studying? Is there any pattern?

 

And if they have completed their studies at one institution pre-war, is it possible they had moved to London and were taking some kind of post-graduate qualification or were even working for the University academically \ administratively?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Terry_Reeves]

A number of London colleges  became constituent colleges of London University prior to WW1 and I suspect that is the link.

 

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/middx/vol1/pp345-359#h3-0006

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_London

 

TR

 

 

Edited 3 September , 2019 by Terry_Reeves

[Clear Bell]

Hi

 

Thanks again

 

All those I am researching were at the Royal College of Art. None of this particular group had completed their studies when they joined the OTC, or joined up (and are listed post-war in the Roll of the University of London so I am assuming they were in the OTC). I suppose their studies at the RCA could be defined as post-graduate.

 

Many thanks for the listings which I have just read through. I can see the RCA is not listed as a constituent college in this nor is listed as an attached college to the University of London (in the pre-amble to the Roll) at this time.

 

The hunt for an explanation continues.....