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aengland

Military Medal - Andrew Tait - Army Service Corps

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aengland

Help required please.  

 

I am trying to ascertain why a particular soldier (Andrew Tait: a driver with the (Royal) Army Service Corps) received a Military Medal, and (being honest) I have no idea how to find out the information.

 

The information that I have is on the attachments (I have more but these are the critical ones I think), but in essence he joined as a 28 year old on 18 February 1915, and was awarded the Military Medal on 3 November 1918..... but for what exactly?  I can see that it was for 'Bravery in the Field' but what was that act of bravery?  

 

I would be grateful for any pointers so as to establish exactly what Andrew Tait did on 3 November 1918.

 

Thank you in advance

 

Andrew

 

 

 

thumbnail_tait service record 2.jpg

thumbnail_tait service record 3.jpg

thumbnail_tait service record 4.jpg

tait service record 8.jpg

thumbnail_tait service record 9.jpg

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PRC
3 hours ago, aengland said:

Military Medal on 3 November 1918

 

I don't know the reason but but it wasn't awarded for actions on this date - he was on leave from the 31st October 1918 to the 14th November 1918. (Source - Casualty Forn Active Service).

 

That leave might even have been granted for the award of the Medal. I believe they normally came with two weeks leave, probably to the UK.

 

The award itself was signed off by (possibly) the Canadian Corps on the 6th October so likely to be in the 4 - 6 weeks previously. As your hopefully aware the British Army decided that the Miltary Medal citations weren't of interest enough to be preserved for posterity, so it wasn't one of the categories of documents handed over to the National Archive. You can try local press accounts, but even these seldom go to the extent of quoting the official citation. These citations didn't go in the London Gazette, and so were only included if they came via a family or friends source.

 

The forms above and his Military Medal card at the National Archive show him as Army Service Corps attached 8 Motor Ambulance Corps.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6283080

 

Perhaps the War Diary for 8 MAC may give you the information you are after. I had hoped that there might be a copy in the Canadian National Archive. Post war they asked for copies of the War Diaries for British Army units for the periods they were attached to Canadian Army Units. Unfortunately they only seem to have the 11th & 14th Motor Ambulance Convoy units of the R.A.M.C.. However if you could establish where the 8 MAC might have been in the later summer of 1918 it might be possible to identify which Canadian Corps they might have been serving, and thus find the information in that Corps War Diary.

There is a guide on how to search the website for War Diaries here

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/Pages/war-diaries.aspx

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited by PRC
Typo

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clk

Hi Andrew,

 

It looks like he was awarded his MM when he was with 8 Motor Ambulance Convoy. Their war diary may mention something. The link to it at the National Archives is here.

 

Regards

Chris

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aengland

Dear Peter

 

Fascinating, thank you so much for your information and insights.  I feared that the reasons for Military Medals being awarded would not be available, and they would have been destroyed / lost in any post war 'weeding out process'.  Just the sheer number of MMs awarded I guess would have meant that there would have been a very large mass of paper..... what a pity they weren't kept.

 

Thank you again

 

See you are from Norfolk.... great county.... 

 

 

 

Hi Chris

 

Brilliant, thank you for your help.... I shall purchase and have a read. 

 

Andrew

 

 

 

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PRC
6 minutes ago, aengland said:

See you are from Norfolk.... great county.... 

 

I take it there is no Norfolk connection for this man given the address on his attestation?

 

7 minutes ago, aengland said:

I shall purchase and have a read. 

 

If you have an Ancestry subscription then you may be able to find it there. His MM MiC shows it was awarded for services in the France Theatre of War. Norfolk Library service only subscribes to FindMyPast so a trip to the local library isn't another option :-)

 

Just had another thought. The parent site shows 326 Army Service Corps Company attached to 8 Motor Ambulance Convoy, so may be worth looking to see if they have a War Diary.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-army-service-corps-in-the-first-world-war/army-service-corps-mechanical-transport-companies/

It states that Convoy were First Army, presumably when formed.

 

Long, Long Trail shows the First Army were involved in the following from the likely period of the award of the MM

 

The Second Battles of Arras 1918, August 1918

The Battle of the Canal du Nord, September-October 1918

The Battle of Cambrai, October 1918

The pursuit to the Selle, October 1918

The final advance in Artois, October-November 1918

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/other-aspects-of-order-of-battle/the-british-armies-of-1914-1918/the-british-first-army-1914-1918/

 

The Canadian Corps were part of the First Army throughout this period. It would appear there was only the one Canadian Corps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada's_Hundred_Days

 

Cheers,

Peter

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MaxD

has In the Canadian war diaries that Peter cites above, there is one for the Deputy Director Medical Services Canadian Corps which might reward a trawl through.  A quick and dirty skim through (from Sept 1918) finds Capt Guppy RAMC,  OC 8 MAC, calling on DDMS periodically and mentions now and again of their activity.  In addition each month the diary has activity reports each month which show 8 MAC locations.

Link:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/lac-bac/results/images?module=images&SortSpec=score+desc&Language=eng&ShowForm=hide&SearchIn_1=mikanNumber&SearchInText_1=2006026&Operator_1=AND&SearchIn_2=&SearchInText_2=&Operator_2=AND&SearchIn_3=&SearchInText_3=&Level=&MaterialDateOperator=after&MaterialDate=&DigitalImages=1&Source=&ResultCount=10

 

Max

 

Edited by MaxD
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collectorsguide

Andrew Tait was an ambulance driver attached to no 8 Motor Ambulance Convoy..His was one of three awards to the 8th MAC in the 13.3.19 Gazette.This Gazette covers the period 8.8.18 to 1.10.18. CEF Awards from this Gazette run from 27.9.18 to 1.10.18. He won the MM with SGT JAMES OAG M2/048951 and SGT ROBERT EDWARD CULROSS M2/048890 for evacuating the wounded in his motor ambulance as part of no 8 MAC.

                        THE CANADIAN MMs were won in the fighting around Marcoing towards Cambrai.I would guess the awards were for 28/29/30/sept 1918.

His Schedule number was 210452 the other two 210450 and 210451.

     The Military Secretary (MS) notes the award confirmed on 6.10.18. This process normally took a week to 10 days from recommendation.This would make the 28/29.9.18 correct.

                                             The MM Citations were written on ARMY FORM   W-3121.They were lost in the Arnside Street fire at the record centre there on 9.9.1940. due to an incendiary bomb being dropped there on the first day of the blitz on London.

                                       The MM INDEX CARDS survived the War and were saved from incineration by the MOD by 3 researchers,with 2 days to spare in 1997.

                                                 Hope this info is of some help to you.   best wishes, Howard .

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MaxD

Guided by that splendid info from Howard, you could concentrate on that period in the DMS diary cited above.  Although the awards are not recorded there as far as I have been able to discern, the action in the time frame from the medics point of view is described in detail.

 

Max.

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aengland

Dear MaxD, collectorsguide, clk, and PRC

 

My apologies for having not replied before today to your very helpful pointers and comments; been exploring the world with limited access to the www.   Thank you very much indeed for all your help.  I can see that I have plenty of reading to do in order to pull together the story.  

 

Really appreciate all your help..... just brilliant.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

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