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laughton

R.M.L.I. & HAWKE Bn in Adanac Military Cemetery

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laughton

This is a carry-over from the topic about the Company Sergeant Major of the Royal Marine Light Infantry in the Serre Road No. 2 Cemetery. The intent was to look for the other three (3) CSMs that have no known grave. During that process, I stumbled across Private Dickinson who is listed as buried in the Adanac Military Cemetery. That cannot be, as he was killed in the Arras Offensive (Battle of Arleux 51b.K.35) on 28 April 1917. The location where the remains would have been recovered at Pys (just north of Courcelette) is more than 20 miles to the southwest of Arleux.

 

From that other topic:

 

On 19/08/2019 at 11:29, laughton said:

how did Private Dickinson end up in the Adanac Military Cemetery (GRRF 2229260) - I have not found him yet?
     - his remains are between two people KIA in the fall of 1916
     - this person agrees (Ancestry Link)
     - UK Royal Marines Register (Ancestry Link) which leads to a record at UKNA here (UKNA Link)

surname initials death rank unit # cemetery grave
DICKINSON W J 28/04/1917 Private 2nd CH/1354(S).' ADANAC MILITARY CEMETERY, MIRAUMONT I. B. 35.

 

 

If we check on the CWGC web site for the Adanac Military Cemetery, we find that the sailors and marines would have been concentrated there from:

 

Quote

 PYS NEW BRITISH CEMETERY, in the village, made by the 42nd Division in August and September, 1918, and containing the graves of 35 soldiers (and sailors and Marines) from the United Kingdom and one from New Zealand. 

 

If I recall many other hunts for details on this cemetery, this is in the sector due north of Courcelette in 57d.R.18 and 57c.M.13, where they overlap on the edge of the map. Unfortunatley, there are a large number of COG-BR (Concnetration of Graves) documents that were lost for this cemetery, including the one for this grave. Comparing the location to the Canadian Private Prall #181174 (grave 1.B.21), on the same GRRF, we know that this is the correct area as his Casualty Record shows he was "exhumed from North of Courcelette, 5 miles West of Bapaume" (57c.M.13). The closest to Dickinson in grave 38 is R. H. LYON #142536 of the 24th Bn CEF. Ufortunatley neither his COC or E-13 lists his exhumation location. Private J. Hay #172192 has a similar listing to Prall, closer to Bapaume. Same for Patrick Carey #408978. Clearly all these exhumations were in the vicinity of the burial grounds at Pys, thus there is no possible way for Dickinson to end up in that cemetery from a battlefield near Arleux.

 

The question then becomes, who was this person from the 63rd (Naval) Division that was buried in the Adanac Military Cemtery? The secondary question is "where is Private Dickinson" really buried, if his remains were recovered at Arleux?

 

To cover off one of the options at the start, there were three (3) "Dickinson" men that were POWs or listed by the ICRC (ICRC Link): (all appear to have survived the war)

 

Investigation links:

  • the CWGC tells us there were 308 men of the R.M.L.I. lost from 1 August 1918 to 1 November 1918 (CWGC Link)
  • only one R.M.L.I. man is listed as a known burial in the Adanac Military Cemetery, Pte J. T. Stowell #CH/19177 killed 25 August 1918
  • only one R.M.L.I.man on the Vis-en-Artois Memorial containing the partial number "135", Pte. James Stevens #PLY/13557 also 25 August 1918
  • sixteen (16) Navy Men in the Adanac Military Cemetery, including mystery-man Dickinson and Stowell noted above (CWGC Link)

 

The last group would be those mentioned in the CWGC notes for Adanac as the "Sailors and Marines" (Drake, Hawke, Hood). Looking at all their documents, I also see a number of UNKNOWNS from the Navy, including an UNKNOWN OFFICER of the Hawke Battalion in 4.A.30 (GRRF 2229332). Someone on this list (CWGC Link) for another day.

 

This is the GRRF 2229260 that has the mysterious "Dickinson", from which we note these points: (all red pen entries - 4th from the bottom of the sheet)

  • it did initially say R.M.L.I. which was changed to 2/ R.M. Bn, R.N.D., so in essence they made him 2nd Bn to match "Dickinson"
  • the initial number was "1357" and that was changed to "1354" to match "Dickinson"
  • the original initial was "J" which was changed to "W. J", also to accomodate "Dickinson"
  • the date of 27.4.17 was added to the sheet

 

The most logical person is the only one that has a very similar number to what was initially recorded, has the correct first initial but clearly has a different last name. He is the only man of the R.M.L.I. on the Vis-en-Artois Memorial for the missing with that partial number "135". The date is also correct to be in the Adanac Military Cemetery. So is it Private James Stevens? Most certainly it is not Private W. J. Dickinson! Where did they get the name "Dickinson"? Something he was carrying that made a reference to him?

 

doc2229260.JPG

 

Edited by laughton
changed title as now also a HAWKE OFFICER

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laughton
On 20/08/2019 at 07:23, laughton said:

The last group would be those mentioned in the CWGC notes for Adanac as the "Sailors and Marines" (Drake, Hawke, Hood). Looking at all their documents, I also see a number of UNKNOWNS from the Navy, including an UNKNOWN OFFICER of the Hawke Battalion in 4.A.30 (GRRF 2229332). Someone on this list (CWGC Link) for another day.

 

The Officer candidates are:

 

surname forename death rank
BIGGS HERBERT BENJAMIN 03/09/1918 Lieutenant
COOKSON ALFRED OWEN 08/10/1918 Lieutenant
WAINWRIGHT OSWALD JOHNSTON 25/08/1918 Paymaster Lieutenant
HARRY F C 08/10/1918 Sub-Lieutenant
STRICKLAND HERBERT SLADE 03/09/1918 Sub-Lieutenant
WICKS ERNEST EDWARD 03/09/1918 Sub-Lieutenant

 

As we have three (3) on 3 September 1918 and two (2) on 8 October 1918, we could not separate those officers, even if we had the exhumation location. The only one that can be separated is Paymaster Lieutenant Wainwright, who is also the most logical candidate base on the date of 25 August 1918. That is the date of death of the others on that specific GRRF for the Hawke Battalion.

 

We do know that the NAVY MEN that are in ADANAC are from August -September 1918, so we can probably eliminate the October Officers.

 

At the CWGC logic is not related to fact. I have to agree, but it is a reason to dig further into that case. I am not even sure that the CWGC carried the fact that he was an Officer of the Hawke Battalion over to his headstone (see HD-SCHD 2064635) to the entry above SANDS.

 

Perhaps there may be something in the Officer Files? @voltaire60 

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laughton

There is a photogrpah of the Dickinson gravestone here (April 2019):

 

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/30711218@N00/47944276478/

 

There is a copyright notice so I can't post the actual picture here.

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laughton

Taking a few minutes to look at the Hawke Officers. There LLT is a 2nd (Hawke) Bn in the 1st Royal Naval Brigade that left in May 1916 to join the 2nd Royal Naval Division Brigade (see error note that follows). It appears it remained there for the duration of the war. If the division remained together, they to were:

  • The Battle of Albert (21-23 August 1918), a phase of the Second Battles of the Somme 1918
  • The Battle of Drocourt-Queant (2-3 September 1918), a phase of the Second Battles of Arras 1918
  • The Battle of Cambrai 1918 (8-9 October 1918)

I think this is the first time I searched for a war diary with just one keyword "Hawke" and it appeared!

 

War Diary from 1 September 1918

 

... to be continued

Edited by laughton
see notes below from Horatio2

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horatio2
14 minutes ago, laughton said:

There LLT is a 2nd (Hawke) Bn in the 1st Royal Naval Brigade that left in May 1916to join the 2nd Royal Naval Division. It appears it remained there for the duration of the war

This statement is incorrect. The 2nd Hawke Bn never took to the stage. The original intention in May 1916 was that a third RND brigade would be facilitated by forming 2nd Drake, 2nd Hood, 2nd Anson and 2nd Hawke Battalions. 2nd Hood formed in France but the other three never got further than Blandford and on 7 June 1916 the idea was abandoned because of manpower shortages. Instead an Army brigade was added to the RND.

1st Brigade would have comprised 1st & 2nd Drake and 1st & 2nd Hood. 2nd Brigade: Howe, Nelson and 1st & 2nd Hawke. 3rd Brigade: 1st & 2nd Anson, 1/RMLI and 2/RMLI. But it all came to nought.

Edited by horatio2

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horatio2
On 22/08/2019 at 20:39, laughton said:

WAINWRIGHT OSWALD JOHNSTON 25/08/1918 Paymaster Lieutenant

For accuracy, he had not been a Paymaster Lieutenant since July 1915 when he was commissioned Lieutenant RNVR. He had been Acting Lt Cdr Nov 1917 to J an 1918 as 2i/c Hawke Bn. CWGC is in error.

Edited by horatio2

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laughton
8 hours ago, horatio2 said:

This statement is incorrect. The 2nd Hawke Bn never took to the stage. The original intention in May 1916 was that a third RND brigade would be facilitated by forming 2nd Drake, 2nd Hood, 2nd Anson and 2nd Hawke Battalions. 2nd Hood formed in France but the other three never got further than Blandford and on 7 June 1916 the idea was abandoned because of manpower shortages. Instead an Army brigade was added to the RND.

1st Brigade would have comprised 1st & 2nd Drake and 1st & 2nd Hood. 2nd Brigade: Howe, Nelson and 1st & 2nd Hawke. 3rd Brigade: 1st & 2nd Anson, 1/RMLI and 2/RMLI. But it all came to nought.

 

Typo where I said "2nd Royal Naval Division" should have been "2nd Royal Naval Brigade".

 

The rest is from the LLT so if that is not correct, I would suggest a check of everything in that page and go over it with Chris Baker.

 

This may be the part that is in the small text beside that notice on the LLT that I did not include and thus details the difference:

 

Quote

Established in August 1914. By April 1915 it was known as 2nd (Royal Naval) Brigade. In July 1915, the Brigade was broken up. It reformed on 2 August 1915 and was redesignated 2nd Brigade. It was further redesignated the 2nd (Royal Naval) Brigade on 7 July 1916, and on 19 July 1916, became 189th Brigade.

 

Is that correct?

 

Most important, does this mean there was no 2nd Hawke Battalion and all the war diaries are for the 1st Battalion - as they are not specificed as 1st or 2nd?

 

 

Edited by laughton

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laughton
8 hours ago, horatio2 said:

For accuracy, he had not been a Paymaster Lieutenant since July 1915 when he was commissioned Lieutenant RNVR. He had been Acting Lt Cdr Nov 1917 to J an 1918 as 2i/c Hawke Bn. CWGC is in error.

 

Are you going to send that into the CWGC? They need the supporting documents which I do not have. You send it to: enquiries@cwgc.org

 

Interesting for me as my mother was a PAYMASTER in WWII in the RCNVR out of Halifax."? I wonder is she was a "Paymaster Lieutenant". My father always said she outranked him and since I have seen him as 2nd Lieutenant and Lieutenant, maybe Paymaster Lieutenant was a higher rank?

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laughton

I will have to sort this out - a wee bit confusing. Will have to pull out the map details, so treat this as DRAFT COMMENTS! A project for tomorrow morning when my brain is a bit sharper. Okay here we go with the update.

 

For future reference this is the start of the war diary for the HAWKE BATTALION for August 1918: page 407 of 508

 

  • The Battle of Albert (21-23 August 1918), a phase of the Second Battles of the Somme 1918
    • WAINWRIGHT    OSWALD JOHNSTON    25/08/1918    Paymaster Lieutenant
      On 1 August 1918 they are at VAUCHELLES and there is a reference to the map and the assembly positions, so that would be 57d.J.21.C and this time I can now see there is a Vauchelles at 57d.I.27 about 5,000 yards to the west. That would be about 22,000 yards northwest of Courcelette 57d.R.30, the area on 57d closest to the burial site at Pys Cemeteries Area 57c.M.13 if I recall correctly (that is next map east). It would appear they are initially on the move west, not east, as they are in HALLOY 57d.B.17 on 15 August 1918, then back east at SOUSTRA 57d.D.22 on 20 August 1918. They then went into the front line from the 21st to 28th of the month. If we switch to the narrative (war diary page 416 of 508) they are near BUCQUOY 57d.L.3 on 21 August 1918. On the 24th they are forming up for an attack at what would appear to now be on map 57c as it reports G.28.c, which would be near GREVILLERS (2,000 yards west of BAPAUME). They are now only 3,000 yards northeast of PYS 57c.M.2. Their objective includes the area of LE BARQUE 57c.M.12. The C.O. Commander S. G. Jones R.N.V.R. was killed in the advance. He is buried in the Bucquoy Communal Cemetery Extension (CWGC Link). Lieutenant O. J. Wainwright, R.N.V.R. is one of the officers listed as killed (war diary page 419 of 508). That page also reports Sub-Lieutenant A. A. Leighton as killed but the CWGC has his death as 3 September 1918 and buried at Denain 51a.C.30. Appears more like he was wounded and died at an aid station?  Sub-Lieutenant W. L. Willison is buried with Jones at Bucquoy, although DOW and buried the same day on the 25th.
       
  • The Battle of Drocourt-Queant (2-3 September 1918), a phase of the Second Battles of Arras 1918
    • STRICKLAND    HERBERT SLADE    03/09/1918    Sub-Lieutenant
    • BIGGS    HERBERT BENJAMIN    03/09/1918    Lieutenant
    • WICKS    ERNEST EDWARD    03/09/1918    Sub-Lieutenant
      The battalion left Miraumont 57d.B.17 on the 30th (war diary page 414 0f 508) to BOIRY-STE-RICTRUDE (51b.S.14) about 9,000 yards due south of ARRAS. The plan is to attack Queant 57c.D.8 from the north with the Canadians on the l;eft (war diary page 428 of 508). QUEANT is 14,000 yards northeast of BAPAUME. On the evening of 2 September 1918 they are atBPOS DE BOUCHE 51b.V.22. Orders for 3 September 1918 were to take the HINDENBURG SUPPORT LINE (war diary page 431 of 508). They suffered heavy casualties from the machine gun fire. They are now in 57c.D.6 between QUEANT and INCHY-EN-ARTOIS and moved as far south as 57c.D.18. Sub-Lieutenants Biggs, Strickland and Wicks are all reported killed on 3 September 1918 (war diary page 434 of 508). Su-Lieutenant W. Chapman is killed the following day and is buried at the Queant Road Cemetery, Buissy (CWGC Link). His remains were concentrated from 51b.V.9.d.3.5 (COG-BR 2039332), which is CAGINCOURT perhaps the site of a battlefield cemetery.. 
       
  • The Battle of Cambrai 1918 (8-9 October 1918)
    • COOKSON    ALFRED OWEN    08/10/1918    Lieutenant
    • HARRY    F C    08/10/1918    Sub-Lieutenant
      The battalion is at ANNEUX 57c.F.25 in early October 1918 (war diary page 442 of 508). They were to head across the RIVER L'ESCAUT and CAND DE ST. QUENTIN on 7 October 1918, so they are heading east away from BAPAUME. It would appear they are on the right flank of the Canadians, heading towards CAMBRAI 57b.A.9. The Hawke Battalion would be crossing east into sector 57b.G.10. The narrative of the action provides the details (war diary page 453 of 508). The Drake Battalion was on the right. The war diary reports that Lieutenant Cookson died of wounds on 8 October 1918 and Sub-Lieutenants F. C. Harry and J. B. Johnston were killed. Sub-Lieutenant James BarlowJohnston is buried in the Cambrain East Military Cemtery (CWGC Link). His remains were recovered at 57b.G.5.a.5.8 (COG-BR 1978628). There is was an UNKNOWN SUB-LIEUTENANT of the Royal Naval Division recovered at the same location - quite possibly Sub-Lieutenant F C Harry. Initially I wrote "we cannot solve that one now" as there are two other Sub-Lieutenants missing the same day, one from the Hood Battalion and one from the Drake Battalion (CWGC Link). Comparing the documents tells us that the other UNKNOWN SUB-LIEUTENANT was in fact William Francis Benson of the Drake Battalion. The Cambrai Cemetery Records should be searched to look for the others - this process never ends!
Edited by laughton
updating locations ..... will take a few entries

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horatio2
14 hours ago, laughton said:

Are you going to send that into the CWGC?

No but if anybody wants to correct CWGC WAINWRIGHT's RND record his here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7279636

A look at the 'Preview' shows clearly that his seniority as a Paymaster Lt was 12/12/14 and his seniority as a Lt RNVR was 22/7/15.

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horatio2
15 hours ago, laughton said:

does this mean there was no 2nd Hawke Battalion and all the war diaries are for the 1st Battalion - as they are not specificed as 1st or 2nd?

That is correct. Since, in its very brief existence, 2nd Hawke Bn. never left UK all war diaries are for the original (1st) Hawke Bn,

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laughton

Thank you! I am working on the update to their locations in post #9 at the moment. Just started as just past 6 am here in Canada. It will take me a few more minutes to finish ....

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WhiteStarLine
16 hours ago, laughton said:

The Battle of Albert (21-23 August 1918), a phase of the Second Battles of the Somme 1918

Map squares from 57c for the Battle of Albert

image.png.d09290daf39c25a6098848a717cd75fa.png

Map squares from 57d - they certainly covered a bit of ground:

image.png.dd04b45b7625f8276f385f13a4917758.png

 

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laughton

My update is complete and the evidence is clear that the UNKNOWN HAWKE OFFICER is Lieutenant Oswald Johnson Wainwright. The others were well out of the area. It would be better if we had actual trench map exhumation locations but there are so many lost for the Adanac Military Cemetery.

 

I also changed the title of this TOPIC as it now deals with both the RMLI and HAWKE men.

 

The HISTORICAL TEXT refers to this action on page 356 of Blumberg's "Britain's Sea Soldiers". That is page 432 of 588 in the online text.

Edited by laughton

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horatio2
16 hours ago, laughton said:

That page also reports Sub-Lieutenant A. A. Leighton as killed but the CWGC has his death as 3 September 1918 and buried at Denain 51a.C.30. Appears more like he was wounded and died at an aid station? 

Died of wounds whilst POW (captured at Thilloy, near Bapaume 25/8/18) in War Hospital Monastery (GSW Neck)

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WhiteStarLine

Map 51b:

image.png.91e0b1816cbfdaedc2e95ea06a437951.png

Map 57c:

image.png.9d6e7383c45fecdf65e62221e1acbbc5.png

 

For 57d I have Miraumont in 57d.L.  57d.B.17 is Halloy, unless I have misread something.

image.png.94887566c837836896bde957ab69978b.png

 

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laughton

 

Perfect, thanks again.

 

41 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

Died of wounds whilst POW (captured at Thilloy, near Bapaume 25/8/18) in War Hospital Monastery (GSW Neck)

 

I am not sure I understand this question or comment? Can you clarify?

 

21 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

For 57d I have Miraumont in 57d.L.  57d.B.17 is Halloy, unless I have misread something.

 

Was that in reference to my text:

Quote

It would appear they are initially on the move west, not east, as they are in HALLOY 57d.B.17 on 15 August 1918, then back east at SOUSTRA 57d.D.22 on 20 August 1918. They then went into the front line from the 21st to 28th of the month. If we switch to the narrative (war diary page 416 of 508) they are near BUCQUOY 57d.L.3 on 21 August 1918.

 

Miraumont is 5d.L.35.

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horatio2
9 minutes ago, laughton said:
52 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

Died of wounds whilst POW (captured at Thilloy, near Bapaume 25/8/18) in War Hospital Monastery (GSW Neck)

 

I am not sure I understand this question or comment? Can you clarify?

I was answering the question which you posed, as follows "Appears more like he was wounded and died at an aid station? "

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horatio2

Have you seen this account of Lt WAINWRIGHT's death in "The Hawke Battalion":

"The Hawke Battalion was to advance through [Loupart Wood]. ...Through the middle of Loupart Wood, dividing the frontage of the Hawke Battalion, there was a road. To the left of this were A and B companies [with] remarkably good cover from view. ... Very different was the fate of C and D companies and of Battalion Headquarters. At the beginning of the attack Commander Jones ... was killed by a machine gun bullet. Under Lieutenant Commander [sic] Wainwright the advance continued ... The chief centre of resistance was an enemy machine-gun post south-east of the wood and it was in attempting to rush this post that Commander [sic] Wainwright was killed. Here, too, fell Sub Lieutenant Willson and Sub Lieutenant Darrell."

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laughton

Comment #1 was just THANKS! Comment #2 had the question for @WhiteStarLine.  I wondered if that would happen!

 

Perfect, thanks again.

 

  2 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Died of wounds whilst POW (captured at Thilloy, near Bapaume 25/8/18) in War Hospital Monastery (GSW Neck)

 

I am not sure I understand this question or comment? Can you clarify?

 

  2 hours ago, WhiteStarLine said:

For 57d I have Miraumont in 57d.L.  57d.B.17 is Halloy, unless I have misread something.

 

Was that in reference to my text:

  Quote

It would appear they are initially on the move west, not east, as they are in HALLOY 57d.B.17 on 15 August 1918, then back east at SOUSTRA 57d.D.22 on 20 August 1918. They then went into the front line from the 21st to 28th of the month. If we switch to the narrative (war diary page 416 of 508) they are near BUCQUOY 57d.L.3 on 21 August 1918.

 

Miraumont is 5d.L.35.

 

And no I have not see "The Hawke Battalion", I will go look for it now. Good, it was on the Internet Archive Site:

https://ia801605.us.archive.org/18/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.127312/2015.127312.The-Hawke-Battalion.pdf

 

That gives a better perspective of their location. The text you quoted is on page 209, so that is good.

 

Page 208

nayw1g9cg051xn16g.jpg

 

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laughton

Here is where these cases stand now:

  1. The case for for CSM Rogers of the 1st R.M.L.I. has been submitted to the CWGC (this topic).
     
  2. A report dealing with TWO INCORRECT identifications should be submitted to the CWGC for Privates Dickinson and Hilton (this summary post). Are there others that members are aware of that are also incorrect?
     
  3. A report should be submitted for the identification of Lieutenant Wainwright (this topic and post above).
Edited by laughton
Lieutenant not Lieutenant Commander -see below

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laughton

Here is Lieutenant Wainwright in the LG for "Temporary Commissions in the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve":

 

The only other document I found was from the UKNA here:

Edited by laughton
update

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laughton

Yes I did, the other one was a different link - just collecting documents. CWGC always wants the "Official Document" to clarify if "Acting Lieutenant Commander" or "Lieutenant Commander".

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horatio2

Just to confirm, he held the substantive rank of Lieutenant RNVR from 22 July 1915, He held the rank of Acting Lieutenant Commander for only seven weeks when 2nd in Command Hawke Battalion 17 November 1917 to 6 January 1918.

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