1st Lifeguards

[Albert Bowler]

Hi, can anyone tell me anything about the involvement of the 1st Lifeguards at Ypres in late October 1914. My grandfather was badly wounded there when his battalion got comprehensively wiped out after 2 futile cavalry charges. Thank you.

[Steven Broomfield]

As far as I know, the cavalry made no charges, futile or otherwise, at Ypres in late October 1914 as they were fighting dismounted. Can you tell us what you know about your grandfather and then more help might be forthcoming.

[David Filsell]

Late October would indicate involvement around Zandvoorde and as indicted by Steven trenches, poorly sited and shallow, were the order of the day.

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

 

Cannot see a charge in the WD.

 

I have a private diary from 21st onwards which mentions a few casualties by name but need a name to work from,

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

Edited 13 August , 2019 by GraemeClarke

[helpjpl]

This, from the Guards Magazine, may be of interest

http://guardsmagazine.com/features_winter15_06Zandvoorde1914.html

 

Note: Lieutenant Sir Richard William Levinge, not Levigne, 1st Life Guards, was killed on 24 October.

 

JP

[jay dubaya]

From the WD

 

30th Oct 1914. Friday. ZANDVOORDE.

06:00. Heavy bombardment of position opened. At 07:30 position was attacked by large force of infantry. This attack proved successful owing to greatly superior numbers. Regiment retired in good order about 10:00 except C Squadron on left flank from which only about 10 men got back. Remainder of Squadron missing. Also one machine gun put out of action.

 

J

[David Filsell]

The Germans actually broke through at Zandvoorde on the 30th and took the RWF in the flank. A relative of mine serving with the RWF was killed in action that day as was the battalion commander and many others.

Haig ordered up reserves remarkably swiftly who stopped the advance - had the Germans pressed on quickly - which they did not. Command and control seems to have been lost - the route to Ypres was open. Some present considered the day as important - if not more - as the defence of the Menin Road the next day. There is one book on Zandvoorde  written recently. I judged it so poor that I sold it off very quickly, damned if I can remember its name. 

[John Beech]

Hi

 

Most recent book I have seen was ' Last Stand at Zandvoorde 1914' by Mike McBride.  

[Steven Broomfield]

2 hours ago, John Beech said:

Hi

 

Most recent book I have seen was ' Last Stand at Zandvoorde 1914' by Mike McBride.  

 

Yes. if it's the one I think it is I browsed through a copy recently and found it a little odd. I can't recall exactly why, but I wnet to the level of photographing a picture caption which, IIRC, was rather odd. Sadly I can't now find the picture: I suspect I deleted it.

[David Filsell]

I am pretty sure that is the book to which to which I referred. A little odd only stars to describe it!

[Steven Broomfield]

1 hour ago, David Filsell said:

I am pretty sure that is the book to which to which I referred. A little odd only stars to describe it!

 

I was being nice. A mate bought it (cheap). I decided not to search out a copy.

Edited 15 August , 2019 by Steven Broomfield

[Kath]

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/review-last-stand-zandvoorde-1914/

[Albert Bowler]

On 12/08/2019 at 17:10, Steven Broomfield said:

As far as I know, the cavalry made no charges, futile or otherwise, at Ypres in late October 1914 as they were fighting dismounted. Can you tell us what you know about your grandfather and then more help might be forthcoming.

Hi thanks for your assistance.  He was Albert Leonard Bowler 2848 , I believe of the 1st Life Guards, injured around 30th October 1914 near Ypres . After being rescued from no man's land , he was eventually shipped back to somewhere in Ireland , where he was in hospital for around a year. 

[AOK4]

On 13/08/2019 at 14:41, David Filsell said:

The Germans actually broke through at Zandvoorde on the 30th and took the RWF in the flank. A relative of mine serving with the RWF was killed in action that day as was the battalion commander and many others.

Haig ordered up reserves remarkably swiftly who stopped the advance - had the Germans pressed on quickly - which they did not. Command and control seems to have been lost - the route to Ypres was open. Some present considered the day as important - if not more - as the defence of the Menin Road the next day. There is one book on Zandvoorde  written recently. I judged it so poor that I sold it off very quickly, damned if I can remember its name. 

 

The German units involved certainly did not think the route to Ypres was open. A quite narrow gap, with plenty of enemy fire into the flanks of their advance while British artillery shelled their only road forward passing through Zandvoorde. Further down this road were plenty of woods and the road at that time was definitely not a road which could be used to bring up plenty of reserves and artillery. The only possible road that could be used for an advance on Ypres at that point was the Menin Road, yet any possible breakthrough needed a wide enough gap, which never occurred during First Ypres.

[David Filsell]

Not convinced from my research, or in discussion with others, by your argument about Menin Road being easier. It wasn't the next day when the BEF was simply hanging on. The German attack there failed the next day when the BEF was weaker than on the 30th. The was no British fall back line in place behind the British line at Zandvoorde. Once the village was taken the route to Ypres - not the road but overland - the route  was open. Infact while the Germans dithered around the  gap in the line at Zandvoorde it was filled by British reserves brought up from positions near Menin Road withremarkable speed and efficiency. Once the weak, ill positioned British lines were broken a German advance was certainly feasible - if had they acted swiftly. They did not, rather they sought to take the rest of the now very weak an battered 7th Infantry Duvision in the flank to roll them up. This failed. by which time the gap in the British line had been filled sufficiently to prevent any German advance . 

We could of course discuss this from my point of view and yours for ever. However it seems quite clear to me that once Zandvoorde was taken,  German command and control broke down.  Equally I would point out that some in the BEF judged  the attack on Zandvoorde offered the Germans better opportunities than the Menin Road where at Gheluvelt actually failed break another weak British line on the 31st

What ifs are a waste of time and effort, but the German failure to consolidate on their breakthrough at Zandvoorde was both surprising and inept.

Edited 18 August , 2019 by David Filsell

[Albert Bowler]

45 minutes ago, David Filsell said:

Not convinced from my research, or in discussion with others, by your argument about Menin Road being easier. It wasn't the next day when the BEF was simply hanging on. The German attack there failed the next day when the BEF was weaker than on the 30th. The was no British fall back line in place behind the British line at Zandvoorde. Once the village was taken the route to Ypres - not the road but overland - the route to Ypres  was open. Infact while the Germans dithered the  gap in the line at Zandvoorde was filled by British reserves brought up from positions near Menin Road withremarkable speed and efficiency. Once the weak, ill positioned British lines were broken a German advance was certainly feasible - if had they acted swiftly. They did not, rather they sought to take the rest of the now very weak an battered 7th Infantry Duvision in the flank to roll them up. This failed. by which time the gap in the British line had been filled sufficiently to prevent German advance . 

We could of course discuss this from my point of view and yours for ever. However it seems quite clear to me that once Zandvoorde was taken German command and control broke down.  Equally I would point out that some in the BEF judged  the attack on Zandvoorde offered the Germans better opportunities than the Menin Road where at Gheluvelt actually failed break another weak British line. 

What ifs are a waste of time and effort, but the German failure to consolidate on their breakthrough at Zandvoorde was both surprising and inept.

On 13/08/2019 at 16:17, Steven Broomfield said:

Last Stand at Zandvoorde 1914

 

[Albert Bowler]

Hi, apologies, I'm not great with technology. The photo I added is of Albert Leonard  Bowler, circa 1911.

I'm not entirely sure of the date he was injured but according to his first hand account of events he was 1 of only 11 troopers & 1 young officer to return after a cavalry charge, who then gave an order to charge again. Trooper Bowler & his horse were taken out on the second charge by a shell landing nearby. One leg was injured badly & his other  partially trapped under his horse which luckily had fell between him & the German trenches, protecting him from snipers. I'm not sure how long he lay there but it was for either 1 or 2 nights before he was rescued. He never really spoke of the war until some 40 years after its end when he became a proud grandfather to the first male born in his family in all that time. He was quite well known locally , despite his injuries becoming a much respected cricket umpire & a coach driver in the 1920's.

I'd love to find out any more about his service . 

Thank you all, for your replies.

 

 

 

[helpjpl]

2848 Trooper Albert Leonard Bowler, 1st Life Guards, disembarked for France on 15 August 1914 and was discharged, medically unfit, on 30 July 1915. He was awarded Silver War Badge 75923 in December 1916  due to Sickness 398(xvi).

 

The 1st Life Guards War Diary, from October 1914, can be viewed on ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_1155_0-00007?pid=569871&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DFlL22%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3D

 

JP 

[Albert Bowler]

Thank you very much for the info.

Albert lost about 3 inches from his left leg following operations after shrapnel damage & had to wear a heavy built up boot. Would there be anywhere I could find out more about his injuries & location of hospitalisation as I'm surprised he was discharged a year later due to sickness.

[helpjpl]

Silver War Badge:

 

Service Record:

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/research/military-records/british-soldiers-ww1-service-records.htm#guards

 

JP

[jay dubaya]

From Trooper 2848 Albert Bowler's service file he was admitted to 4th Cavalry Field Ambulance at Messines on the 20th October 1914 (fracture to left femur/thigh/knee) and was transferred to the 21st FA at Ypres the same day, on the 23rd he was transferred to 7th Stationary Hospital at Boulogne and onto a hospital ship on the 24th.

Given the date Albert was admitted to the 4th FA at Messines on the 20th it may suggest he received his wounds the previous day when elements of the 6th and 7th Cavalry Brigades retired on Moorslede, but you should also consider the 20th, the following is from the 1st Life Guards WD, the 1km stone being just north of Beitem/Beythem,

 

19th Oct 1914. Monday. NORTH OF POINT 29.

06:00. Brigade marched in accordance with BM 2 to 11th kilometre stone on ROULERS – MENIN road. On arrival there is became heavily engaged with hostile infantry and artillery. Maintained position for three hours and then retired on MOORSLEDE. Heavy casualties in 2nd Life Guards Regiment. Lost Lt Sir P BROCKLEHURST wounded and one man killed and 4 wounded. 6th Cavalry Brigade practically not engaged. 7th Division also forced to retire in front of superior numbers. French Cavalry Division acted on our left.

 

 

20th Oct 1914. Tuesday. ZONNEBEKE.

05:30. Regiment marched to take up a line on right of Brigade with left resting n railway crossing on ZONNEBEKE – PASSCHENDAELE road. On arrival this line was entrenched and communication was opened with 7th Division on our right.

 At 10:00 Orders were received to hold this line as long as possible as I Corps was expected at 13:00. A battalion of French 79th Territorial regiment which retired through the position was intercepted and asked to support the Regiment, this they did. The enemy did not advance nearer than 1250 yards from the position but at 12:30 the town of PASSCHENDAELE which had been held by a French Cavalry Division fell into the hands of the enemy and the Regiment was forced to retire on ST JULIEN where the Brigade had been ordered to concentrate on retirement. List of casualties all caused by shrapnel. (No list attached)

 A night attack on ZONNEBEKE prevented the Brigade from returning to billets there as had been intended. At 22:00 the Brigade went into billets at FREZENBERG. With Reference to SL 42, 22nd Infantry Brigade, this gap was filled by two Troops of A Squadron under Maj Sir F CARDEN.

 Capt A H KEARSEY 10th Royal Hussars attached 1st Life Guards took over duties of BM 7th Cavalry Brigade.

 

J

[Albert Bowler]

Great info Jay Dubaya, thanks very much.

 He definitely said he sailed from France to Ireland where he spent around a year in hospital. At some point, although disabled was taught to drive coaches as I've seen photos from the 1920's of him at Land's End with a group of tourists. I wonder if there was a formal program to teach injured soldiers to drive or whether he did it privately. Also I'd love to find which hospital he went to & the ship he sailed on. I have no idea where to look. 

[Albert Bowler]

[Albert Bowler]

The photo shows Albert Leonard Bowler in the mid to late 1920's standing by his coach with tourists from the midlands outside the entrance to Land's End in Cornwalll. 

If you look closely you can see his built up heavy boot on his left foot.

Edited 18 August , 2019 by Albert Bowler
Correction