Sunken road, names to faces?

[Andy davidson]

Hi

 

Re the malins film of the sunken road, I know a lot of the soldiers on the film are in the nearby cemetery. Has anybody ever put names to the faces ?. It's such a haunting piece of footage. I have done tentative web searches but haven't been able to find anything out there.

 

Thanks

Andy

[phil andrade]

This is the Lancashire Fusiliers, isn’t it ?

 

Yes, I have an online acquaintance who proclaims that one of the soldiers is his grandfather : I can’t authenticate this claim, but I believe it.

 

He survived the Somme.  He had also been  in that catastrophic landing at Gallipoli. So says my contact.

 

I’ll seek his permission to elaborate.

 

Phil

 

 

 

[Andy davidson]

Hi Phil 

 

Yes, the lancs fusiliers,  would be great if you could find anything out. I've scoured books, internet etc to no avail. Stood in the cemetery many times wondering if I know the face behind the headstone.

[Andy davidson]

Ps, just found the same question asked from October 2018, and a web site to the lancs for the great war so now know one face at least.

[phil andrade]

Andy,

 

Forgive my manners !  My opening words should be to welcome you to our Forum !

 

I’ve put out a message to my contact, and hope to get a response.

 

I know he can identify his grandfather and sees his face behind one of the projecting bayonets.

 

Phil

[TEW]

Ghosts on the Somme must be about the most recent work that idenfies any of the men throughout Malins' film. Just finished reading it but can't recall off hand if any from the Sunken Lane were identified, will check later.

 

It does sound intriguing if 'Grandfather' is in the footage but be aware that IWM receive numerous identifications of men in the whole film that are 'definitely grandfather/uncle' etc but can be discounted as they hadn't actually arrived in France yet or were in a different theatre of war at the time or in the wrong battalion.

TEW

[Andy davidson]

Thanks TEW, will have to get a copy of that. Have seen a programme years ago re identifying soldiers, recall the scene where someone has an injured man on his back coming up the trench. Extremely moving scene and I recall the presenter going to someone's house looking at old photos and ruling them out.

[TEW]

Just checked my copy and no names given for the footage. There is a photo taken later in the day of 1/Lancs Fus. wounded at a medical post not far from the lane. Capt. C. F. WELLS CO of B Coy would have been wounded in the lane earlier. 2nd Lt. Sheppard was also wounded in the lane.

There is a 2nd Lt. In the footage with his back to camera, perhaps he is Sheppard but I think that's impossible to prove. Incidently, lip readers have worked out what the man opposite the 2nd Lt. said.

 

The man carrying a wounded man in the trench has been claimed as a relative by about 100 people so far, most have been proved to be impossible.

The Ghosts book is well worth it, lots of detail.

Couldn't find the website you mention in post#4?

TEW

[Moonraker]

Previous threads:

here

 

here

 

here

 

Moonraker

[Andy davidson]

Thanks TEW, found the website, and hi Moonraker, been going through the topics, your links just made it easier !!

[Moonraker]

Happy to help, Andy, and welcome to the Forum.

 

One advantage of my being a long-serving member of the GWF is that I have vague memories of topics that have been aired years ago. Not that I have a problem with such topics re-surfacing - new info might have come to light since their last airing - and new members may have joined us able to provide fresh insights.

 

Moonraker

[JBee]

I have watched the footage from the Malins film many times and find one of the soldier's faces stays in my mind. He looks direct to the camera and looks terrified. I don't even think I need to tell you all which one I mean, it's so haunting. Poor fella.  I'm vising Sunken Lane in September to pay my respects.

[Andy davidson]

Is it the soldiers twirling his gun round? His look gets me especially on the 'they shall not grow old"  film. I have an idea to Id all the names of the Lancashire fusilliers who died in the 1st July. I can do this via a lancs web site which lists all the graves in the nearby cemetery in what was no man's land. I will then subscribe to ancestory.com and put in the surnames accordingly. It may be a wild goose chase but some names may produce photos if family trees have been added to by family member's. I put my grandad's name in a few years back and got photos of my great grandad!

 

I am trusting on pure luck and lots of patience but you never know, a poss photo may just match the stills from the film. It's a rainy day winter project and so far I've only saved the lancs web site to my favourites but it's a start!!

[German IR 169]

Thanks for taking this on Andy.   I was equally taken by that image in the film, and was able to visit the Somme/Sunken Lane this summer for the first time.   I wish you luck in this quest and look forward to learning the results of this search.

 

 

[Jarry17]

It’s the Lancashire Fusilliers and the bombing platoon from the Middlesex reg, couldn’t  tell you exactly who but there’s a great exhibition over at Avril Williams Guest house with loads of photos of the guys of the Lanc Fus and Middlesex (along with the other 29 div lot). So wouldn’t be surprised if some of them are there.

[stripeyman]

Jarry

There are Stokes Mortars in the film, I don't know anything about a Middlesex bombing Platoon. I would think that it would be unlikely that another Battalion would be in the forefront of an attack with the principle attacking force at this stage of the war.

[kenf48]

Whilst not concerned with putting names to faces this earlier thread gives a full referenced account of activities in the Sunken Lane on July 1st.  It will at least ensure folk are looking at the correct units

Ken

[Jarry17]

On 18/08/2019 at 19:09, stripeyman said:

Jarry

There are Stokes Mortars in the film, I don't know anything about a Middlesex bombing Platoon. I would think that it would be unlikely that another Battalion would be in the forefront of an attack with the principle attacking force at this stage of the war.

Why would they not be at the forefront at this stage of the war, I’m intrigued?

[TEW]

The extract posted by kenf48 is from Operation Orders for 1st Lancs Fusiliers for 1/7/16. The bombing parties mentioned in that Ops. Order would relate to 1/Lancs Fus. unless otherwise stated EG 'Monmouths' which would be 1/2 Monmouths Div. Troops of 29th Div. who weren't in the Sunken Lane as far as I know.

 

16th Middlesex Bn. of the same Infantry Brigade as 1/Lancs Fus. As far as I can recall were not in Sunken Lane but were filmed by Malins 'in the forefront' at 7.30 am.

 

They were in Sunken Lane 27/28 June and had been shelled by the enemy.  A detachment from 16/Middx. formed a brigade bombing company but where these were at 7.30am I can't say without checking.

TEW

[JBee]

On 14/08/2019 at 21:52, Andy davidson said:

Is it the soldiers twirling his gun round? His look gets me especially on the 'they shall not grow old"  film. I have an idea to Id all the names of the Lancashire fusilliers who died in the 1st July. I can do this via a lancs web site which lists all the graves in the nearby cemetery in what was no man's land. I will then subscribe to ancestory.com and put in the surnames accordingly. It may be a wild goose chase but some names may produce photos if family trees have been added to by family member's. I put my grandad's name in a few years back and got photos of my great grandad!

 

I am trusting on pure luck and lots of patience but you never know, a poss photo may just match the stills from the film. It's a rainy day winter project and so far I've only saved the lancs web site to my favourites but it's a start!!

Sorry Andy, on;y just seen this reply to my previous message.

 

I'd be interested to hear of your findings. After my visit to the sunken lane last week, I'm keen to know more about the lads there.

 

The one who's face I can't forget (and dont want to) is this fella. He looks so scared.

 

Rubbish pic taken off front cover of Middlebrook book.

Edited 9 September , 2019 by JBee

[Andy davidson]

JBee

 

It's a project for dark winter nights, so will probably start it Oct / Nov ish, and I'm aware it's a long shot but worth a try. I will of course post an update, good or bad later in the year.