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Remembered Today:

Once and for all, is it Ghazze or Ghuzze?


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I have seen both versions of the spelling from many sources, including, the Official History, The Imperial War Museum, The History of the 52nd Division, etc etc etc

 

Is it Wadi Ghazze or Wadi Ghuzze. Does it matter as long as one is consistent?

 

Mike

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Take your pick. It would be the British transcription of a word from another language (? Arabic) . I know nothing about the above example, but if it is anything like words in India there can be multiple variations (over five in some instances)  which were acceptable.  I think you don't even need to be consistent.

 

Cheers

Maureen

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13 minutes ago, Maureene said:

  I think you don't even need to be consistent.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

Thanks Maureen. I think I would at least have to be consistent. Probably go with Ghazze as I think it is connected to "Gaza" in some way.

 

Mike

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Having just found this topic and not having heard of the campaign (my knowledge is obviously sadly deficient), I googled Ghazze and found multiple entries. When I googled Ghuzze it asked if I meant Ghazze. What more do you need than google’s approval?

 

Tongue in cheek,

 

Steve

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40 minutes ago, Ex-boy said:

 I googled Ghazze and found multiple entries. When I googled Ghuzze it asked if I meant Ghazze. What more do you need than google’s approval?

 

Tongue in cheek,

 

Steve

 

:D

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41 minutes ago, Ex-boy said:

Having just found this topic and not having heard of the campaign (my knowledge is obviously sadly deficient),

 

 

Steve

 

I put off studying Palestine for some years, not being interested in it, but having a need to research it eventually. Dipped into  in a few months back and am absolutely fascinated with it. Extremely interesting.

 

Mike

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It seems I will need to do some research then, as I hate to be found wanting.

 

And I thought I knew it all. Tongue firmly in cheek.

 

Steve.

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3 hours ago, Skipman said:

 

Is it Wadi Ghazze or Wadi Ghuzze. Does it matter as long as one is consistent?

 

You can add to your collection; Ghuzzee (Allenby writing to Robertson 11 July 1917)

As you suggest, be consistent, and if necessary, point out the commonest alternative spelling in a footnote

 

best regards

Michael

Edited by michaeldr
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Being far from home and reference books, I have made an initial foray into the campaign via Wikipedia, where the spelling is mainly Ghuzze, but also Ghuzzeh!

 

Having learnt a little Arabic in the army, I can only agree with Maureen that transliteration of Arabic words into English could have various spellings, depending on who does the work and possible local accents/dialects, so if you are happy with one variant, just go with it.

 

Steve.

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In the 74th Divisional history it's called Wadi Ghuzzi.

In the 10th Battalion KSLI war diary it is Wadi Guzzee.

In the "The Battle for Palestine 1917" by John Grainger it is Wadi Ghazze.

 

You pays your money you take your choice!

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Gareth Davies

For what it is worth (very little I suspect) I use Ghuzze.

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Both are ok to me, but it should be "Ghazze" if you want to stick with the original. "Ghazze" comes from "Gazze/Gazzah", which is original Arabic name. "Ghuzze" is more "British".

 

Edited by emrezmen
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37 minutes ago, emrezmen said:

Both are ok to me, but it should be "Ghazze" if you want to stick with the original. "Ghazze" comes from "Gazze/Gazzah", which is original Arabic name. "Ghuzze" is more "British".

 

 

Many thanks emremen. That'll do me.

 

Mike

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To add to the confusion, in this part of the world, every part of a wadi is usually called or nicknamed in a different way - usually in connection to a physical object or phenomena, a land owner, etc'. 

 

The British map makers in the 1870's (The PEF) usually followed the local names, but Wadi Ghuzzeh is an exception. It stretches for a long distance under the same name. The Arabic name is Wadi G'aza (This G' sounds a bit like an R), see the Arabic spelling bellow - Interesting, as it reaches the Mediterranean a few kilometers west of Gaza, near Nuseirat. 

 

4955512_WadiGaza.jpg.e427663a13feb1df21520c3f0e8e5e61.jpg 

 

In Israel we relate to this water course as Bsor, but also as G'aza for the lower part. The PEF map covers the route of this water course only to the spot it splits to two: Wadi esh Shellaleh (continuing further south and south-east) and Wadi es' Seb'a (continuing further east) . 

 

Historically, Wadi G'aza was considered by some as the border of the Holy Land. Some scholars think that that is 'The river of Egypt' mentioned in the Bible, while others point at Wadi Al Arish, further west.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Eran 

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