Map Reference August 1914

[Perth Digger]

This is the reference given on the Grave Registration Report Form for Lt Charles Tyerman Taylor, 18th Hussars, reported missing on 24 August 1914. He was buried by the Germans at this spot and then exhumed after the war, now lying in Romeries Com Cem Ext, Plot 10.B.6. Using the NLS trench maps, I have been unable to find this spot, 51a.w.25.b.6.4. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[charlie2]

Mike,

Try this map http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A70379/-/collection

Charlie

 

[helpjpl]

Hope this is right - 51a.W.25.b.6.4, Le Pigeon Blanc:

http://www.tmapper.com/mapping/showmap.php

 

JP

 

[charlie2]

4 minutes ago, helpjpl said:

Hope this is right - 51a.W.25.b.6.4, Le Pigeon Blanc:

http://www.tmapper.com/mapping/showmap.php

 

JP

 

Sorry it is incorrect, pigeon blanc is approx 600yards SW of W.25.b.6.4. See the map in my last post.

 

Charlie

[Howard]

Take care, between 1914 and mid 1915 they changed the grid layout and later shifted the grid itself. This link shows the first version of the grid layout before the "revised system of squaring" first appeared in 1915. On some early 1915 maps, especially in the Loos area, the revised system of squaring itself is shifted by as much as 200 yards.

 

Here is an example of the shifted grid, both maps are after the "revised system of squaring".

 

Howard

 

Edited 19 July , 2019 by Howard

[Howard]

This is a 1915 First Edition "B" series showing sheet 51a square W25. Its grid matches with that of much later maps so post-dates the grid shift. Sadly I do not have a 1914 map to make sure, very few 1914 maps survived, many were not drawn in time, the area was not all re-surveyed (they started near Loos) and the British army were using the truly awful 1:80,000 French maps from the previous century.

 

Some more research is required to make sure the map reference quoted is in fact on the revised system of squaring.

 

(I uploaded square 21 by mistake and cannot find how to delete it!!!!)

 

Howard

 

Edited 20 July , 2019 by Howard

[Perth Digger]

Charlie, JP and Howard

Taylor's task (he was alone) was to keep communication between the 2 Squadrons of 18th Hussars (one had gone walkabout earlier) and HQ, which was at Solesmes. He was last seen trying "to reach one of the detached troops on the ridge", which would have been close to le Pigeon Blanc, which is/was, I think, on the ridge north of Solesmes where some troops had been stationed.

An exact position is not absolutely necessary for me, but it is interesting that another six bodies were buried at the same spot by the Germans. There were four Unknown British Soldiers; one Unknown British 2nd Lt; Taylor and Major G J Stapylton, RFA.

 

Thanks for your help. Maps really confuse me, especially on-line maps.

 

Mike

[charlie2]

Howard,

Thanks re the grid shift, I wasn’t aware of it. The grid reference given is from 1920.

 

Charlie

[clk]

Hi Mike,

 

8 hours ago, Perth Digger said:

Using the NLS trench maps, I have been unable to find this spot, 51a.w.25.b.6.4.

 

This link should open up on 51a.W.25 on the NLS site. As Charlie notes the reference is from 1920, so all should be good.

 

Regards

Chris

[Perth Digger]

Hi Chris

That looks good to me. Many thanks.

 

Mike

[Howard]

1 hour ago, charlie2 said:

Howard,

Thanks re the grid shift, I wasn’t aware of it. The grid reference given is from 1920.

 

Charlie

It does not often pose a problem except when a map reference is quoted. Maps from 1914 are very rare, almost all I have are hand drawn, they had to do that as printed ones were not usually in the form that we usually see them. Early in the war they used a large floor to spread out the Belgian maps pasted together then extended that grid system West to cover France, hence the strange sheet numbers. It took a while for this to percolate down to unit level, early maps were re-drawn from the really awful French 1:80,000 series so had significant errors in accuracy. No-one thought of telling the British that the superb 1:20,000 French Plans Directeur (Lambert) maps existed and were available, at least not until the British had re-surveyed the front to a high standard. A bit late to change which is a shame as the Lambert projection if far better for artillery than the Bonne used by the Belgians and hence the Brutish.

 

Howard

Edited 19 July , 2019 by Howard

[spof]

On 19/07/2019 at 20:31, Howard said:

(I uploaded square 21 by mistake and cannot find how to delete it!!!!)

 

Howard

 

If you edit the post you will see your attachments listed below the text. Click on thne rubbish bin icon on the ones you want deleted.

 

Glen

[Howard]

4 hours ago, spof said:

 

Howard

 

If you edit the post you will see your attachments listed below the text. Click on thne rubbish bin icon on the ones you want deleted.

 

Glen

Many thanks. A grey icon on a grey backgound, it did not grab me by the eyeballs!

 

Howard

[Perth Digger]

Just to let you know that I've written a short piece on Taylor that can be found here: http://www.greatwarbritishofficers.com/index_htm_files/Charles Tyerman Taylor.pdf

 

Thanks for you help.

 

Mike