BBithell Posted 15 July , 2019 Share Posted 15 July , 2019 I am looking for a soldier who escaped from Gustrow POW camp in Germany circa September 1918 with my relative was Jack Bithell (11th Hampshires). Jack was captured at Royart on the 27 Mar 1918. He was sent to Gustrow pow camp in Meckleberg, Germany , and is on the red cross list of prisoners dated 22 Aug 1918. They escaped and managed to make their way to Charleroi in Belgium where they were helped by a local man named Raymond Degueldre. I have a photo taken on the 22nd November 1918, of Jack and Raymond with the man Jack escaped with. I'd be grateful if anyone has any information about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 (edited) You need to give us more information in him. As far as I can see there is only 1 MIC for J Bithell in Hampshires - service no 12189 And press reports give that Sgt J Bithall (same service no) was a released POW in early Dec 1918 on the weekly War Office Casualties I don't want to knock stone dead the story that he escaped. But more digging needs to be done here with any more info you can supply. For example perhaps he escaped and was recaptured, or stayed with Raymond until it was safe to emerge Edited 16 July , 2019 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 Hi BBithell, Welcome to the forum. Do you know if he was actually held at Gustrow, rather than just the camp administering his captivity? Image sourced from archive.org The first repatriation record I saw relates to Jack being transferred back to England from 26 General Hospital, Etaples on 26.11.1918 - link Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 The following records may be of interest re 12189 Sgt John Bithell, 11th Hants: R52765 - Released Prisoners of War Reported by Hospital in France: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2910500/699/52765/ R52319 - List of Repatriated British Prisoners of War landed at Dover: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2910500/699/52319/ R52260 & R52210- List of Repatriated British Prisoners of War arrived at King George's Hospital, London, 26 November 1918: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2910500/699/52260/ https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2910500/699/52210/ PA34217, Gustrow: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2910500/698/34217/ All the above - International Committee of the Red Cross Prisoners of the First World War: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/2910500/3/2/ JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 The list is dated 01.08.1918 not 22.08.1918, see the start of the list at PA34139, the date 22nd Aug is only the Red Cross processing date. It is also possible that he was on a working party in France and walked away after the armistice. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBithell Posted 16 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2019 Thanks to you all for the replies, all very useful information. I'm under no delusions, the escape story is one passed down by family members but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true of course. Or so I thought until we found the postcard from Raymond with the photo on the front :- And the message on the reverse :- The man in the middle is Raymond, Jack is on the right and a mystery man on the left who I'm trying to trace as his family may have an alternative version of events. Until this photo emerged we thought it all a fanciful story. However, the documents showing his release are telling so it needs further investigation I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBithell Posted 16 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2019 He is John Bithell 12189. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 22 minutes ago, BBithell said: The man in the middle is Raymond, Jack is on the right and a mystery man on the left The man on the left in the photo seems to be the one wearing sergeant's stripes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBithell Posted 16 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2019 Agreed but he is most definitely not my relative, I have other photos of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 6 minutes ago, charlie962 said: he man on the left in the photo seems to be the one wearing sergeant's stripes ? Agreed, there is only 1 sergeant The photo is taken/signed 2 weeks after the end of the war on 11 Nov 1918 There seems to have been some holding facility for POWs at Charleroi. From Voices of the First World War We only got halfway to Cologne and then we were billeted at Charleroi, an industrial village near Charleroi, in Belgium, where we were mostly billeted. By then, of course, having got there, then there was a void. There was nothing much to do seriously – guards were mounted and so on but of course drilling and all that was a mere token drilling. And of course everybody but everybody wanted to be demobbed –immediately. The war was over and all that had held it together had gone, you see… It's quite easy to see that the Germans, if they'd had any body of troops still equipped, there'd be nothing to stop them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 There's a B'ham Daily Post newspaper report 5th Apr 1918 of his well earned MM. One might expect a report of his escape/return but nothing obvious ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBithell Posted 16 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2019 This local Birmingham newspaper article may have a bearing but I couldn't say for definite if the man on the left is Lieut. Smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBithell Posted 16 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2019 April 1918 would be before the escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 OK, I am lost now BBithell has posted a photo of 3 men One man is a civilian who is Raymond Deguelde and who has inscribed the photo to Jean Bithel (who I take to be John Bithell) The other two are British soldiers in uniform One would expect from the inscription that one of these two soldiers was John Bithell But the newspaper photo of John Bithell looks nothing like neither man in the photo And only one is a Sergeant. Bithell was a sergeant So who are the men in the photo, and why is it inscribed to Bithell if neither man is Bithell, Is it just a souvenir of Raymond, and the others have nothing to do with the inscription? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBithell Posted 16 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2019 The man on the right in both the photo and the newspaper article are the same man. I would disagree with you about them looking alike, I feel they do. remember though that the newspaper shows and artists version and not a photo. This is a slightly better photo of jack sent by him to his wife :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 (edited) Message reads "Affectionate souvenir of Charleroi from Raymond Degueldre from Montignies Neuville to Mr Jean Bithell. The 22.11.1918 " Yeah, I'm with @corisande on this : if mr Jean Bithell is not on this photo, why would Raymond give him (John Bithell) as an "affectionate" souvenir of Charleroi a photograph of him (=Raymond) with two random soldiers? Wouldn't be surprised if the (slightly better?) photo of John Bithell was the template for that "artists impression" in the newspaper. But he sure looks like the man on the right in the fuzzy photograph. Even the parting matches. Edited 16 July , 2019 by JWK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 16 July , 2019 Share Posted 16 July , 2019 Hi, Going back to the original question, from readily available records, I fear that it will be near impossible to establish who the other (unnamed) soldier in the photo is. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBithell Posted 16 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2019 Thanks Chris, I'm aware of that but putting his photo on here is a long shot that was worth a try. Someone may recognise him. I am very grateful for all of the input. The mystery continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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