731138 Robert Gladstone James 2nd Glamorganshire Brigade RFA

[BIFFO]

now I took a blind punt on this chaps medals BWM-Victory

now im stuck before I start

Robert Gladstone James 731138 battery quarter master sergeant  2nd Glamorganshire  brigade R.F.A welsh division

MIC doesn't say much Medal roll says less

how on earth can I find out when/where he went, when he came back where he lived,not much to ask gwf isit 

I really should STOP buying medals I have lots to research but I found this chap intriguing 

what does a battery quarter master sergeant do ? 

[BIFFO]

i have found this welsh man in the census,BUT his mic and medal roll neither say when/where he went.I believe he was in 2nd glamorgan h battery 265 brigade may 1916, ,renumbered 261 brigade 15th September 1916, 53rd welsh division,as I cannot find his embarking date I do not know if her went to gallipoli  or wf,I have looked in the history of the 53rd which isnt much help 

have looked on a well know site for the wd of either 265 brigade or 261 brigade,as usual smacked straight into that well know brick wall

Edited 10 July , 2019 by BIFFO

[MaxD]

The BQMS is the man, next senior to the Battery Sergeant Major, who is in charge of the logistic side of the battery's operation.. He with a small team makes sure the battery is fed and watered and has clean socks and a rum ration.

 

Max

[BIFFO]

I really really am stuck,I cannot find my man anywhere, which division my chap was in 53rd or 38th,all I can find is the welsh division(as much use as a chocolate wok) I dont know which WD to look for

if I could find out where he went he would have had to be in TF as I said in post 1,I cannot find anywhere 2nd glamorgan RFA,with his name Gladstone it was relatively easy to find him on the census,

but  he could be SWB-RWF or WELSH REG, 53rd or 38th quite easy problem really  even had a couple of none gwf buffs looking  and they are also stuffed

[clive_hughes]

Biff,

His MIC card has him as Acting BQMS and he's on the RFA (TF) medal roll for British War & Victory.  Roll just confirms number, and RFA TF.  

 

The use of his 6-figure TF number on the medals indicated he went abroad for the first time after the renumbering of 1 January 1917, with 2nd Welsh Brigade RFA commencing at 731001.  So he was the 138th man in the Brigade by seniority of service at that point in time.  Prior to 1909 they were in fact part of a Volunteer Battalion of the Welsh Regiment: they and the Glamorgan RHA TF  from the same source changed their arm of service after the 1908 reorganisation of the TF. 

 

2nd Welsh Bde. comprised the 3rd and 4th Glamorgan Batteries; the Cardigan Battery, and the 2nd Welsh Brigade Ammunition Column. The Brigade originally had 15-pounders. The Brigade HQ was at the Drill Hall, Cardiff for the Glamorgan batteries and Ammo. Column, and Aberystwyth for the Cardigan Bty.  In 1915 when the rest of 53rd Welsh Div. went off to Gallipoli, the artillery was kept behind in Bedford.  They were re-armed with 18-pounders October 1915, and handed over their old kit to the reserve 68th (2nd Welsh) Div. TF.  

 

They began embarking for France 20 November 1915 and the batteries were attached to various units for instruction, before they were ordered on 30 January 1916 to rejoin their parent Division in Egypt. They began to disembark at Alexandria on 11 Feb. 1916.  The Brigade was renumbered 266th (CCLXVI) in May 1916, and the batteries as A, B, and C.  After some internal reorganisation that Christmas, it was renumbered 267th (CCLXVII).  Later C battery was replaced by 439th (Howitzer) Bty.  They took part in the Palestine campaign.

 

So, if he'd accompanied them to France or Egypt 1916, his medals would have shown his previous (?3-figure) number.  It's possible his service papers are indexed under a lower number, if you want to try searching.  Looks as though he was retained in the UK for a while, maybe with 68th Div's artillery (2/2nd Glam.Brigade etc.).  But if he joined his old Brigade at all, it would have been in Egypt at the start of 1917 or later because of that longer number.  In fact, he could have been posted after 1.1.1917 to any unit anywhere: the medals only tell us his parent outfit!  

 

You might also try searching "Gladstone James" in the advanced search box of the Welsh Newspapers online?  That's my reading of the picture, but happy as always to be corrected. 

 

Cheers,

Clive

[David Porter]

Biffo,

 

The details Clive has produced are roughly correct. The 2nd Welsh Brigade RFA actually commenced renumbering at 730001 so he is much further down the order. Robert Gladstone James appears to have enlisted around December 1915, going by other similar numbers. This rules him out of going to France with the 53rd Divisional Artillery, so he would have joined the 2nd Line (68th Division) or the 3rd Line (No. 2 Artillery Training School, Bettisfield Park). This doesn't, however, rule him out of joining 53rd Division later and, as Clive says, in 1917 or later.

 

One thing of interest is that the brigade had a Cardigan Battery and there is one prime candidate (under his full name) living in Cardiganshire in the 1911 Census. He is the manager of a woolen factory and this would make him well suited for the duties of Battery Quartermaster Sergeant. This person, I feel sure, is the man you are looking for. 

[clive_hughes]

David P,

Thanks for correcting my error - obviously warped in my memory between reading it in the attic and getting downstairs to the computer!!

 

Curiously, I did speak once to a veteran of the Cardigan Battery, quite elderly and residing near Bangor, Gwynedd.  The only thing I recall was his saying that he'd seen the Pyramids, and adding slightly wistfully "But I don't suppose I shall see them again!"  

 

I'd usually recommend a check on the Absent Voters List 1918 to identify his unit in that year, but from personal knowledge the Cardiganshire one only has "NM" (Naval & Military) against the names of servicemen and no other details.  

 

Clive

Edited 11 July , 2019 by clive_hughes

[BIFFO]

David, living in Cardiganshire in the 1911 Census. He is the manager of a woolen factory and this would make him well suited for the duties of Battery Quartermaster Sergeant. This person, I feel sure, is the man you are looking for.

 that`s the man I have and think its him  all the other census records for him line up

Clive what can I say 

at least now I have something to for

Biffo

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Hi Biffo,

Unfortunately, Robert didn't live in Cardiganshire.

Fortunately, he lived in Derlwyn, Glandwr, Hebron, Llanfyrnach, which is in Pembrokeshire.

More fortunate still, is that some Pembrokeshire experts have recently made the Pembrokeshire Absent Voters List available online to the public free of charge in memory of all the Pembrokeshire men and women who served.

I can't say if Robert appears in the list, but if you follow the link on The Long Long Trail, it might give you an answer.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

 

Hint: Look at page 56.

Edited 12 July , 2019 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[BIFFO]

Hello Dyfed,your correct,

I managed to track him down in the census,with his middle name Gladstone it was relatively easy (for a change)will go have a looksee at your link,as he didnt kia until 1918 maybe there

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

This might help too Biffo:

 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/198344008/robert-gladstone-james

 

 

[BIFFO]

now your a top bloke Dyfed,you would be even"topper"if you could translate ?

when I have finished researching a chap,if possible I like to have a headstone/grave,thats why last week my suffering wife and myself mooched around mountain ash cemetery  in the heat for two hours,I have been happily married for a long time and can spot her moods,just lets say she wasn't happy ,I stayed outta reach of her vicious right hook  

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The Pembrokeshire AVL is wholly the work of Jon Woodhouse (jay dubaya).

All I did was rearrange it into alphabetical order in a spreadsheet, and got Dyfed FHS to host it on their website and guarantee free access to all.

Edited 14 July , 2019 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[BIFFO]

I have  a pair to R.G.James 731138,I think R.A(T.A.)R.F.A

ok its probable royal artillery/royal field artillery,BUT whats a A.B..Q.M(quarter master)SJT(sargeant)  2nd Glamorgan welsh division.

Not only do I not know what the above is I cannot find his M.I.C or Medal Roll,I have given up on his service papers so I also do not know if he is Welsh or English,on a well known site

other than that im marvelous .

BIG HELP required if possible

Biffo 

Edited 12 February , 2020 by BIFFO

[David Porter]

He is Acting Battery Quarter-Master Sergeant Robert Gladstone James.

His Medal Roll entry is easy to find under that number.

Edited 10 February , 2020 by David Porter

[MaxD]

Acting Battery Quartermaster Sergeant and he is in the Territorial Force Royal Field Artillery Slow off the mark

 

Medal card at the National Archives here:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3590900

 

Max

Edited 10 February , 2020 by MaxD

[travers61]

On ancestry there is a possible entry for him in a book of teachers, graduates or Matriculated Students of the University of London serving in HM Forces, published 1918

 

Name:Robert Gladstone James

Gender:Male

Record Type:Student Military Record 

Military Start Date:1914

Military End Date:1918

Rank:Cpl

Regiment or Branch of the Armed Forces:RFA

 

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=61488&h=12234&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=5119

[David Porter]

We have been here before.

 

 

[DavidOwen]

Threads merged to avoid repetition.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

This is his MIC, free on Ancestry, and in colour:

Link

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 14/07/2019 at 00:47, BIFFO said:

 he didnt kia until 1918 maybe there

He didn't kia at all.

His gravestone says he died in 1964.

 

[BIFFO]

Thank you all,

now I have a starter for 10 im off

David man you did banjacks me by merging my posts 

[Guest]

In response to the request for a translation of Robert Gladstone James's headstone in the cemetery of Glandwr Independent Church, Glandwr, Pembrokeshire. 

The headstone reads in Welsh : "I GOFIO'N ANNWYL / DEULU'R DERLWYN, GLANDWR / ROBERT GLADSTONE JAMES / 1886-1964 / BU'N GANTOR I DARO'R DôN / I DDWYSAU CERDDI SEION. / HEFYD EI BRIOD HOFF / CATHERINE / 1897 - 1969 / HOFFUS OEDD, I ORFFWYS AETH / O'I HOES WEN O WASANAETH "
Translation : "In loving memory / Family of Derlwyn, Glandwr / Robert Gladstone James / 1886-1964 / "A singer who could strike a tune / to strengthen the songs of Seion" / Also his dear wife / Catherine /1897-1969 / "Much loved, she went to rest / From a pure life of serving others"

(The two couplets are in the classical Welsh strict metres for poetry - the lines are in 'cynghanedd' form, and the couplets fit the pattern of a 'cywydd', the favourite metre of Wales's greatest poet, Dafydd ap Gwilym. 'Derlwyn' is a very old farm near Glandwr - on the edge of the Preseli hills, and on the border between Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire : there has been an independent / Congregationalist church at Glandwr since about 1712). 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Croeso Gwedi Elwch...

 

Ffan mawr o'r Gododdin felly?

 

 

 

 

 

[BIFFO]

Thank you again esp the last 2 chaps,