Rfn 12797 J.E Osborne 1 KRRC

[Mark Osborne]

Good Evening Everyone,

 

I am researching my Grandfather's time during the Great War. Over 20 odd years of wonderful research and I have almost completed his time on the Western Front. It has been a labour of love. However I am missing one vital piece of information and I was hoping someone could help.

 

I know my Grandfather got an MiD to add to his MM but I can find no record of his MiD. However it is displayed on his Victory Medal Ribbon. The unexplainable text on his Medal Record Card cannot be deciphered.

 

My gut feeling is it may be recorded under 1 Bn in the 1918 King's Royal Rifle Corps Chronicle of which I do not have a copy and have searched on and off over 3 years to buy a copy to no avail.

 

Can anyone confirm this please and with a date when it was published in the Supplement to the London Gazette? I have copies of the Chronicles for 1916 and 1917 and would love to buy 1915 and 1918 if only I could find somewhere to buy them.

 

My thinking is it may have something to do with the May 3rd 1917 attacks near Oppy by D Bn Composite Brigade 2 Div and that the Despatches were made public towards the very end of the year hence publication in the 1918 Chronicle. I am guessing and it is a long shot.

 

Also my Grandfather had a blighty wound (Rifle Grenade) on the 28th September 1917 near Hohenzollern Redoubt whilst manning Post 11. Has anyone an idea what German Rifle Grenade were in use during this time?

 

Thank you.

[ss002d6252]

Quote

The unexplainable text on his Medal Record Card cannot be deciphered.

Which text in particular ?

Craig

[Mark Osborne]

Dash I took the folder into work so am unable to reply properly until tomorrow. It seemed to be a few letters one of which was an E and then a 5 figure number if memory serves me 26573 and then a separate 3 numbers.

 

Not much help I know. I can reply properly tomorrow.

 

Sorry

[clk]

Hi Mark,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

If you mean...

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

...they are just admin references to the medal rolls. On Ancestry they are here. 

 

Findmypast has the record set "King's Royal Rifle Corps Chronicle 1900-1920".The search page is here

 

Regards

Chris

[Mark Osborne]

Hi Chris,

 

Indeed I was referring to that. I checked the link and the reference is for his MM awarded in 1917. Thank you. Being in Germany I was unaware of these sources of info too.

 

I guess I may never find it.

 

Never knew so may people are interested in the Great War! Great stuff. I am not alone.

 

Regards

 

Mark

 

[stiletto_33853]

Mark,

His MM is mentioned on page 263 of the 1917 KRRC Chronicle, awarded 1/6/17.

There is no mention in the 1918 Chronicle of an award of an M.I.D., maybe 1919 which I do not have.

 

Andy

[MBrockway]

On 12/07/2019 at 09:11, stiletto_33853 said:

Mark,

His MM is mentioned on page 263 of the 1917 KRRC Chronicle, awarded 1/6/17.

There is no mention in the 1918 Chronicle of an award of an M.I.D., maybe 1919 which I do not have.

 

Andy

Correct reference Andy, but unfortunately the 1917 Chronicle is wrong!

 

His MM was gazetted in LG Issue 30064, Page 4599, published 11 May 1917.

 

See here LG Issue 30064, Page 4599

 

The 1st Battalion War Record in the 1917 KRRC Chronicle has a battalion list of MMs on p.49.  The correct LG date of 11/5/17 is given there ... contradicting p.263!

 

The MiD is indeed proving very elusive.  I can find no trace of it in the MiDs for 1917-1919 inclusive.  Earlier MiDs are more complicated to check - I'll attempt to search these over the weekend.

 

John Osborne's correct KRRC Service Number was R/12797, not 12797, so he was a Kitchener volunteer rather than a Regular.  At a rough estimate, he probably enlisted late 1914 to early 1915, but these higher range SNs are notoriously variable.

 

He went out on 25 Aug 1915.  This does not match any of the KRRC battalion embarkation dates, so it is likely he went out in a replenishment draft.  At this stage 1st - 4th and 7th - 13th battalions were in theatre.  The Chronicle mentions a draft of 52 ORs going out from 15/KRRC (one of the Reserve btns in Blighty) to 8/KRRC on 21 Aug 1915 (p.226), so that is a possibility.  However, similar detail for the other three Reserve battalions does not appear in the 1915 Chronicle and they too must have been busy sending drafts out at this time.  14/ and 15/KRRC (and their RB equivalents) were originally intended as draft-finding units for the K1 and K2 New Army battalions - i.e. 7th - 12th inclusive).  This is consistent with his R/ prefix SN.  1/KRRC would normally have been serviced from 5/ or 6/KRRC, but it is entirely possible that he could have gone to 1/KRRC from any of the UK-based Reserve battalions.

 

Mark O - do you have any info showing he went out to 1/KRRC?  He was definitely with 1/KRRC when he won his MM.

 

He transferred to the Army Service Corps on 26 Nov 1917.  The Absentee Voters List for 1918 and 1919 place him at 3 Delia Street, Wandsworth, London SW18 (modern Post Code of SW18 2BT) and as Private R/366860, No 2, 50th Squadron, AFC (sic).

 

The ASC is not my specialism.  His R/ prefix and the reference to Squadron probably points to the ASC's Remounts Service, whose No 2 Depot was at Woolwich.  No 2 Base Remount Depot was at Le Havre.  Unsure which one refers here.

 

A quick look in Michael Young's Army Service Corps 1904-1918, shows no sign of a 50th Squadron - his list of Remount Squadrons jumps from 48 to 51.  As I understand it, the Remount Squadrons trained the horses before passing them on to the Remount Depots in theatre.

 

Another possibility is a typo in the AVL for 50th Company, ASC, which was a pre-war Regular Motor Transport company supporting 6th Division.

 

The AVLs are on Ancestry here (1918) and here (1919) [subscription required].

 

If you have more detail on his ASC service, that would be worth posting here for interest.

 

He was demobilised from the RASC by transfer to Class Z Army Reserve on 03 Jan 1920.

 

At the same address in the AVLs is also Charles Osborne, Pte. 515/607, 14th London Regiment (London Scottish) - brother?, father? son?

 

You mention a serious wound from a rifle grenade at the Cambrin sector in late Sep 1917.  John's transfer to the ASC may have been because he was unable to recuperate back to A1 fitness.

 

HTH

Mark

 

 

 

Edited 19 July , 2019 by MBrockway