ChrisC Posted 8 July , 2019 Share Posted 8 July , 2019 Hi All, I've tried various ways to research this but with little luck as the RDC seems to be poorly researched and documented. A relative served with the RDC and I know that 123 was a London company. But what were their duties? Any clues much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 8 July , 2019 Share Posted 8 July , 2019 (edited) I think they were home based involved in security of POW camps, ports, stations etc. A search of the forum brings this up which should be of help https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/65263-royal-defence-corps/ Edited 8 July , 2019 by johnboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 8 July , 2019 Share Posted 8 July , 2019 The RDC were effectively armed guards - they guarded factories, railways, PoW camps etc. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 10 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2019 Johnboy & Craig, thanks for your replies. Is there a source that could tell me what 123rd Company actually did? I know they were a London Unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 3 hours ago, ChrisC said: Johnboy & Craig, thanks for your replies. Is there a source that could tell me what 123rd Company actually did? I know they were a London Unit. I don't know of any specifics for them, only that they're noted as a protection company (which carried out tasks as above). The RDC is very difficult when it comes to tying down specific units and locations. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 (edited) One (slim) possibility is if there are surviving papers for other members of the company. While they won’t of themselves tell you what the unit did, these tended to be older men so more likely to require medical attention. The locations where these are accessed might begin to paint a pattern of where the unit was located. Additionally if any of them died then there could be a coroners inquest or some other report in a local paper. There might also be pension papers for widows and dependants. As far as I can tell the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website lists three men from this company. Corporal 37536 George Harry Ruffels died on the 11th April 1917, aged 52. There are no additional family details. He is buried at Woolwich Cemetery. https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/386625/ruffels,-george-harry/ The Civil Death Register records his death in the Woolwich District. No obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate. Private 25240 George Henry Bower died on the 24th October 1917, aged 53. He was the son of George and Sarah Bower; husband of Alice Ann Bower, of 15, Loxley View Rd., Crookes, Sheffield. Born at Sheffield. He is buried at Walkley, Yorkshire. https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/413067/bower,-george-henry/ There is a 54 year old George H recorded in the Civil Death Register as died at Hartlepool, but I suspect the correct match is the 53 year old George Bower, (no middle name), whose death was recorded in the Woolwich area in the last quarter of 1917. No obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate. Private 22392 F. Giles, unit shown as 123rd Protection Company, died on the 21st January 1918, aged 43. The only additional information is that he was born at Chatham. He is buried at Chatham. There is an inscription on his headstone, (“Gone but not forgotten”), that was requested by a Mrs. S. White, 26 Eldon Street, Chatham. https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3056354/giles,-/ The death of a Frederick Giles, aged 43, was recorded in the Civil Death Register in the Medway District of Kent in the first quarter of 1918. No obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate. On that small sample of three it would suggest they were likely to have been along the Thames, making it more likely they were guarding port and munitions facilities rather than PoWs. Hope that helps, Peter Edited 10 July , 2019 by PRC Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 10 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2019 Thank you Craig. You're right, it is difficult. Family anecdote was that he guarded German prisoner / internees at Alexandra Palace. Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 10 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2019 9 minutes ago, PRC said: One (slim) possibility is if there are surviving papers for other members of the company. While they won’t of themselves tell you what the unit did, these tended to be older men so more likely to require medical attention. The locations where these are accessed might begin to paint a pattern of where the unit was located. Additionally if any of them died then there could be a coroners inquest or some other report in a local paper. There might also be pension papers for widows and dependants. As far as I can tell the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website lists three men from this company. Corporal 37536 George Harry Ruffels died on the 11th April 1917, aged 52. There are no additional family details. He is buried at Woolwich Cemetery. https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/386625/ruffels,-george-harry/ The Civil Death Register records his death in the Woolwich District. No obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate. Private 25240 George Henry Bower died on the 24th October 1917, aged 53. He was the son of George and Sarah Bower; husband of Alice Ann Bower, of 15, Loxley View Rd., Crookes, Sheffield. Born at Sheffield. He is buried at Walkley, Yorkshire. https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/413067/bower,-george-henry/ There is a 54 year old George H recorded in the Civil Death Register as died at Hartlepool, but I suspect the correct match is the 53 year old George Bower, (no middle name), whose death was recorded in the Woolwich area in the last quarter of 1917. No obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate. Private 22392 F. Giles, unit shown as 123rd Protection Company, died on the 21st January 1918, aged 43. The only additional information is that he was born at Chatham. He is buried at Chatham. There is an inscription on his headstone, (“Gone but not forgotten”), that was requested by a Mrs. S. White, 26 Eldon Street, Chatham. https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3056354/giles,-/ The death of a Frederick Giles, aged 43, was recorded in the Civil Death Register in the Medway District of Kent in the first quarter of 1918. No obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate. On that small sample of three it would suggest they were likely to have been along the Thames, making it more likely they were guarding port and munitions facilities rather than PoWs. Hope that helps, Peter Peter, thank you very much. The first chap is buried in the same place as my man! I have his entry in the Register of Soldiers Effects. The quest continues! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 Can you give the your mans name and any further details as this would be a start to trying to find records that might exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 1 hour ago, ChrisC said: The first chap is buried in the same place as my man! I have his entry in the Register of Soldiers Effects. The quest continues! Chris Chris - if it's the Walter William Collier remembered in your Tag line, then wasn't he cremated and remembered on the wall at Greenwich Cemetery, rather than buried at Woolwich Cemetery? I see the CWGC webpage has him as 23rd Company, but on the grave registration report someone has put a "1" in front, which would provide evidence to get the CWGC to update their records if required. (Document from the CWGC site attached for ease of reference). The formal register records that he died of laryngitis. How are you sure that he was 123rd Company rather than 23rd Company? I'm sure you're aware but the death of the 50 year old Walter W. Collier was recorded in the Woolwich District in Q4 of 1917. As with the others there is no obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate. I take it his wife's War Widow Pension documents haven't survived? Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 18 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2019 Hi Peter, Sorry for the delay in responding and thank you for your information. I have his entry in soldier's effects below. Yes, it's WW (Walter William) Collier formerly of the Highland Light Infantry & Imperial Yeomanry. I wasn't aware of the cremation possibility. I guess the "C" stands for cremation although I'd imagined that his grave was just unmarked. It certainly looks as if 123 Coy was the correct unit even though CWGC site has him as 23. I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 18 July , 2019 Share Posted 18 July , 2019 38 minutes ago, ChrisC said: It certainly looks as if 123 Coy was the correct unit even though CWGC site has him as 23. I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Chris, With the CWGC's own document and the Register of Soldiers Effects entry I would have thought you have enough information to get the CWGC website information corrected, (and presumably the memorial wall if that also has that information and the CWGC pay for it's maintenance). They should also be able to confirm is he is in an unmarked grave in Greenwich Cemetery - as far as I'm aware they still have a responsibility to maintain those plots even if the name is remembered on the wall. As I've been discovering recently, the CWGC went through periods of putting special memorials in place without actually consulting the cemetery records - possibly intending to come back when the burial plots were identified but from the looks of things they have been there for years. The Heroes Corner Walls are a bit more than that, but if the CWGC doesn't have details then it may be worthwhie contacting the Royal London Borough of Greenwich who run the cemetery. Alternatively this site does appear to have him on their site as buried on the 19th December 1917 but such details as the burial register entry and map of location are behind a paywall. http://deceasedonlineblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/this-week-we-reveal-details-of-latest.html I'm not connected to that site nor do I have any experience of using it - it's just what Mr. Google brought up when I asked :-) Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 18 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2019 Many thanks, Peter. I'll press on with investigations and update here when and if I make progress. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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