Sam Weatherall

[squirrel]

Looking for information on this man from m Northern Ireland. Served in the Boer War, RIR between that and WW1, WW1, 1st Dock battalion Liverpool Regiment ?, Home Guard WW2.

Any assistance, suggestions great fully received.

[Langdon]

Have you seen this on Ancestry in the Pension records?:

Name:Samuel Wetherall

Gender:Male

Document Year:1915

Residence Place:61 New Road, Terebrook

Regimental Number:1296

Regiment Name:1st Duke Batalion Liverpool Regiment

 

Mike

[DavidOwen]

Any more information on the man to help the Pals narrow him down?

[squirrel]

Mike, thanks for this.  David, not at present, still looking.

 

[Mark1959]

The docs that David refers to are repeated in FMP. There are records from 1889-1892, 1901-2 and 1915-19. Plus some from the later 1930s. At a quick glance all appear to be the same man and follow the path you suggest. No Home Guard record. 

Home Guard - the enlistment papers use to be held at the Medal Office. Found my Dad's. These should be published by the PRO when the WW2 service papers are released - 2025??

 

[PRC]

It may not add much to what you can glean from the Pension records, but could be worth checking out the 1939 National Register. (FindMyPast and Ancestry).

 

This document has entries going across at least two pages, but only the first page, (name, date of birth,marital status and occupation), was released under a freedom of information request. However the images on FMP, (and possibly Ancestry, I’ve not seen it), have been taken in such a way so that it’s quite often possible to see the first column of the facing page. The column header is not visible, but the information it contains usually relates to the civil defence role carried out in WW2, (the register served as the basis for the issue of identitiy cards amongst other things), and occasionally previous military experience. What’s in that column isn’t transcribed, so you have to look at the actual image, but it might help confirm you’ve found the right man.

 

If it doesn’t confirm the actual Home Guard unit he served with, at least it might help identify where he might have served.

 

Although the entries don’t set out the exact relationship of the members of the household, usually an informed guess can be made. It might prove possible from that to identify wife and children, (if any). From that using civil records it might be possible to construct a (small) family tree looking for key dates – marriage, births \deaths of children – which might co-incide with times he was serving. The related marriage \ birth \death certificate should at a minimum show his rank and regiment, and potentially more – service number, battalion, where stationed.

 

Depending on where he was stationed in April 1911 he may well turn up on the 1911 Censuses – the one for England and Wales covered everywhere in the British Empire not covered by a local census, (i.e. mainly Ireland & Scotland).  If in doubt, check the Annual Army list for either 1911 or 1912 as they show where each battalion was stationed.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/101172421

 

For instance if he was with the Royal Irish Regiment then the 1911 edition shows the 1st Battalion at Agra and the 2nd Battalion at Guernsey. However there is no obvious match at either location.

 

Hopefully by this stage you have a confirmed date and place of birth so can head for the free Irish Genealogy records.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

 

Finally, for his service in the Boer War there is also the Anglo-Boer war website and its Name search facility. This only lists Private 44556 Samuel Weatherall serving with the 176th Company, 29th Battalion, Imperial Yeomany – although the site itself recognises this database is a work in progress so your Sam may have served with another Regiment whose roll has not yet been located or transcribed. That soldier qualified for the Queen’s South Africa Medal, which places him at the earlier part of the conflict, not the later stages for which the King’s South Africa Medal was awarded.

The site also notes that the 176th Company was also known as the Irish Horse.

https://www.angloboerwar.com/

 

Of course there are also possible lines of research like the Absent Voters lists for 1918 & 1919 and Newspapers Archives.

 

Hope some of that helps and isn’t too much “teaching granny to suck eggs”.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Mark1959]

The Local Defence Volunteers - Home Guard - was not formed until May 1940 so would not appear in the 1939 list. 

There is no one that looks like it is him in the 1939 list.

[PRC]

19 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

The Local Defence Volunteers - Home Guard - was not formed until May 1940 so would not appear in the 1939 list. 

There is no one that looks like it is him in the 1939 list.

Agreed about the formation of the Home Guard - but the National Register was a working document up until the early nineties for one reason or another so you get all kinds of Civil Defence \ Military Service information turning up in that additional column. It's not completed to a universal standard, so men turn up who obviously served in the Great War but there is no reference to that. I have a page I've downloaded from the Register for someone I'm researching at the moment and I've taken a crop of the relevant column as an example.

 

Thanks for looking at the 1939 Register - I've never had cause to look and see if it included Northern Ireland, so maybe that's why he doesn't turn up.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Mark1959]

Thanks Peter. Learn something new every day!

Edited 1 July , 2019 by Mark1959

[squirrel]

Thank you all for all the information - greatly appreciated.