What records exist for repatriations of POWs?

[M_O'Neill]

(Unsure if this is in the correct forum, please feel free to move it if it isn't!)

 

As a general question, I was wondering if anyone could give me an overview of what kind of sources exist for tracking the repatriations of POWs at the end of the war. Were all repatriations recorded somewhere, or only a fraction?

 

I'm trying to see if there's any evidence for the final stage of my Great Grandfather's WWI journey. He was Pte John Thomas Monckton (203416) of the 10th Lincolnshires, the 'Grimsby Chums'. He was captured on 22nd March 1918 in the area of Croisilles/Bullecourt - his ICRC POW record is PA 27158 (he is erroneously listed as 'James').

How likely is it that any record of his repatriation exists? Any and all help gratefully appreciated!

Edited 26 June , 2019 by M_O'Neill

[mancpal]

You have obviously seen his ICRC card, was there another number with an R prefix? It’s that one that deals with repatriation but it’s not always there. My grandfathers card unfortunately didn’t have it.

 

Simon

[M_O'Neill]

I haven't actually seen his index card - the PA form link was given to me by a fellow forum member. For some reason typing 'Monckton' into the ICRC index card search comes back with no results.

So I'm in the slightly unusual position of having seen the POW form before the index card!

[charlie962]

35 minutes ago, mancpal said:

It’s that one that deals with repatriation but it’s not always there.

I had the impression that a number of these R sheets have are there but not recorded on the Index Cards at ICRC?

I also had the impression that ICRC have not digitised the R lists after mid/late Dec 1918 .

 

 

 

The Daily Casualty Lists normally report the repatriation. Searching on FindMyPast Newspapers is a good route:-

 

Here is Monckton

 

 

It could well be worth trawling through Other Lincolnshire men on this repatriation list to find someone who followed a similar path.

 

Charlie

 

Edited 26 June , 2019 by charlie962

[clk]

Hi,

 

26 minutes ago, M_O'Neill said:

I haven't actually seen his index card - the PA form link was given to me by a fellow forum member. For some reason typing 'Monckton' into the ICRC index card search comes back with no results

 

FMP have an index card (link).It just shows the one 'PA' number (27158), no 'R' number.

 

Regards

Chris

[charlie962]

33 minutes ago, M_O'Neill said:

For some reason typing 'Monckton' into the ICRC index card

You have to look through the 250 cards starting Mollroy, just before Monks !

[M_O'Neill]

Thanks for the replies, all - super helpful!

@charlie962 Ah, I didn't realise the Moncktons were hidden in there, thanks for that! Good suggestion for looking into other Lincolnshire men, I'll see what I can find.

[Keith_history_buff]

I'm pleased to have been able to have found the same info via British Newspaper Archive too. Whilst it is administered by FMP, I did wonder whether or not this was ring-fenced in a FMP-only dataset

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001953/19190107/145/0021

[M_O'Neill]

So I've been looking at other 10th Lincolnshire men to see if I can find any further info, to no avail. I've found a couple who were repatriated via Hull but as they were not in Limburg I don't know what value that information has (I'm not 100% sure that my great grandfather was in Limburg through to the end of the war - that's just my assumption as there are no records of any transfers after his arrival at Limburg in May 1918).

 

I have a couple of follow-up questions though:

 

• Were men generally repatriated together as part of their regiment? I know that they were usually listed together in the records for obvious reasons, but did they usually travel together or was it just men individually drifting back to be recorded once they landed back home?
• If my great grandfather was listed in the newspaper as being back in England by 07th January 1919, I presume he actually arrived earlier. Is there any way of guessing roughly how long he'd have been back in England by the time the paper reported it?

[GrenPen]

Private John Evans, 7925, South Wales Borderers was captured at Langemarck on 21 October 1914. ICRC document R53448 states that he arrived in Dover on 3rd December 1918.

His name appears in the WO daily list dated 13 Dec 1918 and published on 17 Dec 1918.

You would need to see other examples, but that would be a time consuming exercise in gathering data on POWs, and from those, determining who has both ICRC repatriation details and an entry in the War Office lists. Hope this is of interest in relation to your second question. 

[charlie962]

7 hours ago, M_O'Neill said:

back in England by 07th January 1919, I presume he actually arrived earlier.

From a number of PoWs I've looked at I have the impression that these repatriation notices were published fairly promptly (particularly after the Armistice) so I think he will have been repatriated within a fornight before 7/1/19. That seems to be confirmed by GrenPen's sample of 1.

 

Charlie

7 hours ago, M_O'Neill said:

Were men generally repatriated together as part of their regiment?

If captured together they often ended up in camps together and would be expected to be repatriated together. I see no logic to a Regiment deciding when men should be repatriated unless they had to pass by some Base Depot system in France ? Obviously the subsequent reporting was done in Regimental batches. Only by going through a few examples in that Lincolns list will you know what actually occurred- and you can then become an expert and enlighten us !!

 

Charlie

[brianmorris547]

My Lincs Regt grandfather has two ICRC cards. One with his P A number which showed he was in Munster 2  and a separate card with his R number (R 53113) which showed that he was repatriated on the S S Arbroath, arriving at Hull on 02/12/1918. Your man may have a R number on a separate card with a different spelling of his name. A Forum member from the Netherlands kindly provided me with newspaper cuttings from the Rotterdamsch Nieuwsblad and De Tidj which showed that the S S Arbroath sailed from Rotterdam.

Brian

When I looked at this list I found that I could trawl back and forth so you may have some success trying that.

Edited 30 June , 2019 by brianmorris547

[charlie962]

45 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

When I looked at this list I found that I could trawl back and forth so you may have some success trying that.

Brian, as I said above I think the ICRC sheets are not available after mid December 1918. ICRC may well still have them but they've not been digitised ? That is certainly true for repatriations of PoWs from Turkey. But I stand to be corrected.

 

48 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

Your man may have a R number on a separate card

Had looked but not found.

 

Charlie

[M_O'Neill]

Once again, thanks for the replies, all - this is all very helpful!

 

It's an interesting idea about looking for an 'R' form under a different name, as my great grandfather is erroneously listed as 'James Monckton' on his PA form and index card (rather than his real name John). However, I took a look and couldn't find any likely candidates, at least under the name Monckton.

[charlie962]

There was an organisation known as the Grimsby and Cleethorpes Lincolnshire Regiment Prisoners of War Fund. Do the local archives hold their records. They made gifts to repatriated PoWs.

charlie

 

This from Rootsweb:

Prisoners of War.

Men from Grimsby would be among the first British Prisoners of War to be interned in Germany, for when war was declared on Aug. 4th, 1914, several vessels registered at the port were in harbour in Germany. These vessels, including several of the Gt. Central RaiIway fleet, were seized and their crews interned. Some time necessarily elapsed before news of these men reached England, but as soon as it became known that they had been interned the Grimsby Interned Prisoners' Relief Fund dispatched parcels which reached Germany in December of 1914. At the same time a fund was set up by the Great Central Railway Co. to help their men in Grimsby, and, under the guidance of Captain Joules (who acted as secretary) this fund sent out parcels to German prison camps, and when the war was over their employees returned to Grimsby to find all their wages awaiting them.

It was early in 1917 that the Government established a Prisoners of War Committee, whose duty it was to care for all British prisoners in enemy countries. The soldier prisoners were dealt with by the various regimental societies. The Lincolnshire Regiment Prisoners of War Fund was administered in Lincoln by Major du Buisson, who received valuable assistance in Grimsby from Mrs. Sutcliffe and Major Crosby.

After the German offensive in March, 1918, it was found that the Lincolnshire Regiment Fund was by no means adequate for dealing with many local prisoners, and Grimsby decided to take unto itself the duty of caring for its own sons in the Lincolnshire Regiment who were captures in enemy hands. A local branch of the Regimental Prisoners of War Society was established with official assent, the Mayor of Grimsby (Ald F. Noss) being President, the Deputy-Mayor (Counc. Jos. Barker) the Hon. Treasurer, and Mr. H. W. Sheckell the Hon. Secretary. Within a very short time £6,000 was raised of which £4,000 still unexpended when hostilities ceased and the prisoners began to return. This balance was distributed among repatriated prisoners of war on their return to Grimsby, each of the 400 men receiving £10.

The Returned Prisoners Relief Fund (of which Lady Doughty was President) adopted a similar course, presenting the married men with £10, and the single men with £5 on their repatriation, and this after sending nearly 20,000 parcels into Germany, involving a sum of nearly £6,000.

Edited 30 June , 2019 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Batty 202142 has a surviving service record showing PoW 21/3/18- 9/12/18, his repatriation (noted as 10/12/18) being reported in CasList I posted above. But he seems to have been MGC when captured.

Edited 30 June , 2019 by charlie962

[robbie56]

My Grandfather was captured 22nd March just north of Vraucourt. That places him approximately 2 miles, or less, from your Great Grandfather’s capture on the same day.

My Grandfather’s ICRC card has him as a prisoner at Parchim but for a few reasons I believe he was never held in a prison camp. His R card has his repatriation via Boulogne suggesting he was kept towards the front as a work party. I believe those held captive in Parchim were repatriated from further east.

Not sure how this helps but the mention of Bullecourt and 22nd March caught my attention !

I’ve attached the R info.