Seaforth Highlander Glengarry

[Bbeattie]

I recently picked up this Glengarry without it's badge, thankfully the badge that had been on it (Seaforth Highlander) had been on long enough to leave a ghost mark. The curious aspect of this Glengarry is the configuration of lug holes (5 - two top two middle and one below the middle). I have searched across all across the internet searching for a similar and have come up short finding 2/3/4/&6 lug variations but nothing that shares this exact pattern. The interior blanket like lining, wicker innards, jagged tail ends, and oddly small size lead me to believe that it dates to the First World War era (with the introduction of rayon Glengarry in 1915?) or interwar and was curious to hear others thoughts on the matter. It could very well be one of two more  things;

1st) The glengarry had a four lug variation cap badge and was eventually swapped out for a three lug variation of the Seaforth Highlander Cap badge (leaving the ghosting)

Or 

2nd) The Glengarry was initially badged to a completely different Highlander unit with two lugs and was then fitted with a three lug variation of the Seaforth badge. 

Regardless i'd love to hear additional feedback from others and their thoughts. I know the late Joe Sweeney had written an article pertaining to Scot headgear in the First World War but can anyone confirm if he mentioned rayon band Glengarrys? 
 

[FROGSMILE]

I think you’ll find it was probably the Seaforth’s badge (4-lugs), with set between the antlers a Ducal Coronet (for Albany) and cypher (1-lug), all in white metal.  This was the ‘staff badge’, worn by officers and ‘First Class staff’ NCOs of the battalion only (the latter category later divided into two, warrant officers and the most senior SNCOs).  The early version of this badge was divided into 3-parts (sometimes 4), motto scroll, stag’s head, coroner and cypher (these latter could be adjoined or separate).  In a later version (worm by the Canadian Seaforths) this was all joined together, but although slightly smaller it was a tall badge and so with the lugs arranged as you have outlined.  I enclose images of both types of badge.  There were a range of different fittings based upon these factors and different manufacturers.

Edited 3 June , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Bbeattie]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I think you’ll find it was probably the Seaforth’s badge (4-lugs), with set between the antlers a Ducal Coronet (for Albany) and cypher (1-lug), all in white metal.  This was the ‘staff badge’, worn by officers and ‘First Class staff’ NCOs of the battalion only (the latter category later divided into two, warrant officers and the most senior SNCOs).  The early version of this badge was divided into 3-parts (sometimes 4), motto scroll, stag’s head, coroner and cypher (these latter could be adjoined or separate).  In a later version (worm by the Canadian Seaforths) this was all joined together, but although slightly smaller it was a tall badge and so with the lugs arranged as you have outlined.  I enclose images of both types of badge.  There were a range of different fittings based upon these factors and different manufacturers.

Thanks FROGSMILE. The rosette doesn't appear to have any ghosting that would indicate there being a Ducal Cornet or cypher, nor is there a lug hole where you would expect to find one to account for them. That single lug hole at the bottom would either have to be a part of the scroll (in the middle) or the snout (unsure due to how low that single hole is and why I had suggested maybe a 3 lug variation afterwards). I know the Canadian 231st battalion had a four lug variation of badge (1/2 - https://www.emedals.com/231st-bn-seaforth-highlanders-of-canada-badge-c1544) but I am not entirely certain the glengarry itself is First World War so much as it has much of a resemblance to the calf skin variation during this period. The problem I find with the Canadian Seaforths badge you had suggested is that all the examples I've found (thus far) have been 2 lug variation, either configured horizontally or vertically (3) (4) but could very well be due to different makers.

 

 

Edited 3 June , 2019 by Bbeattie
additional info

[FROGSMILE]

Yes, I understand what you mean.    I can only suggest a makers variant with the lower central lug/loop either, on the snout, or scroll, depending on whether it was a rank and file, or staff badge.