Private Arthur Gates, Cambridgeshire and Lincolnshire Regiments

[John French]

We believe Arthur Gates enlisted in the 1^st Battalion, the Cambridgeshire Regiment as Private 9143, date unknown, but was killed on 31/71917 on the first day of the 3rd Battle of Ypres and is commemorated on the Menin Gate as having served with the 8th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment as Private 235225 Gates.  We know this is the correct man, as CWGC gives his brother Herbert as next of kin.  His War Gratuity is only £3-0-0, so I assume his military service is one year or less.

 

Please could anyone estimate from his service numbers the enlistment dates into the Cambridgeshires and his transfer date to the Lincolnshires, so we can determine whether he had any other active service other than 3rd Ypres.

[wandererpaul]

There aren’t many records left to compare with. Here’s one which could help.

 

No. 9127 Thomas Lockyer Banks (1st Bn. Cambridgeshire Regt)

 

enlisted 14 November 1916.

 

So, did #9143 A. Gates enlist around the same time, 14 November to 31 December 1916?

 

[clk]

Hi,

 

In addition to the papers for 9127 Banks, there are also some for a 9116 Campbell which indicate that he transferred to the regiment on 10.11.1916. However, 9173 Thompson appears to have been mobilised on 2.11.1916, and 9195 Johnson on 3.10.1916.

 

In terms of his 235225 Lincs number:

235221 Woods - transferred from the Cambridgeshire Regiment, and posted to 8/Lincs 23.4.1917

235262 Odell - allotted his number when posted to the 8th Bn from 4th (Reserve) Bn on 27.4.1917

 

Regards

Chris

Edited 14 May , 2019 by clk

[George Rayner]

A tree on Ancestry has Arthur Gates related to Matthew Webb of cross channel fame. Haven't quite worked out the family relationship though!

 

George

[John French]

Thanks for all your responses.  I think we can assume that Private Gates enlisted in 1/1 Cambs in late November 1916 (considerably later. than the Derby Scheme dates for a 30 year old man) and completed his 12 weeks basic training with that regiment (in England or France?).  He seems to have been part of a large draft of replacements around the last week in April 1917.  I cannot find what, if any, major actions that 8th Lincs. were involved in between 1915 Battle of Loos and 31 July Third Battle of Ypres.  Any suggestions what caused the need for inter-regimental transfers?

 

On a previous search of the East Surrey Regiment there was a "Battalion Part II Orders" which gave Battalion postings by date - is there a similar document for 8th Lincs.?

 

 

 

 

[clk]

Hi,

 

The 8th Lincs war diary (Ancestry here) shows that on 9th April  1917 they had a total of 17 Officers and 499 ORs. On 10th April 9 Officers were wounded and ORs - 30 killed, 187 wounded, and 8 missing. On 23rd April 2 Officers were killed and ORs - 20 killed, 102 wounded, and 14 missing. The diary entry for 2nd May notes a draft of 278 ORs.  The 1st Cambs war diary (Ancestry link) at the end of April gives a 'strength' of 37 Officers/1067 ORs - 'with unit' 23/841 respectively. On May 10th, it notes a draft of 21 men arriving. It does not note a draft being supplied by them.

 

I wonder if Gates may have originally served at home with the 2/1 Cambs, been sent overseas to serve with the 1/1 Bn, but redirected on (or shortly after) arrival to the 8/Lincs?

 

Regards

Chris

[John French]

Chris, thanks for the links to the war diaries - I have never found them on Ancestry before (and it saves on a trip to Kew).

 

I managed to find Gates' medal card on Ancestry ( https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41629_612057_10643-00051?pid=2282380&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dllindiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5119%26h%3D2282380%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DHWx695%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=HWx695&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.24955066.1040228686.1557779122-1133114258.1534707303#?imageId=41629_612057_10643-00051 ) and noted there were 99 men issued consecutive Lincolnshire service numbers (235132 - 235231) all from 1/1 Cambs.  As your notes above suggest 1/1 Cambs were at or above strength, it is not surprising that 8th Lincs. April losses were made up from inter-regimental transfers.

 

Does the following chronology for Gates make sense:

Enlisted in 2/1 Cambs.(or one of the other training battalions) end-November 1916 and completed 12 weeks basic training in England

Transferred to 1/1 Cambs. in France around March 1917

Transferred to 8 Lincs, 2/5/17

 

John