Ottolini Posted 22 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2019 @david murdoch Also in some photos was a picture where Fred inscribed Jubbelport on the back so I’m thinking maybe it was 14th battalion like you suggested earlier on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 22 April , 2019 Share Posted 22 April , 2019 6 hours ago, Ottolini said: Here’s the group photo. Also in the Facebook group. So relieved to find it. Love this photo, chap sitting second in from right, MMG's cap badge,RFA brass titles, as the MMG's were originally badged RFA, and Motor Machine Guns cloth shoulder title, note the Officer still wearing his RA collar badges. Super, thank you for sharing. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 23 April , 2019 Share Posted 23 April , 2019 48 minutes ago, Dragoon said: Love this photo, chap sitting second in from right, MMG's cap badge,RFA brass titles, as the MMG's were originally badged RFA, and Motor Machine Guns cloth shoulder title, note the Officer still wearing his RA collar badges. Super, thank you for sharing. Chris Yes lots of interesting detail. I'm sure this photo represents one section of the battery. Going by the numbers and the single officer. He would the Section Commander - 2nd Lieutenant flanked by his NCOs. then the No.1 and No.2 gunners on the guns. Can see 5 MG trade badges (including the Sergeant). The others would also be "Gunners" but would be the ammo carriers, scouts ect. Early on (up until 5th Battery) other ranks and officers were mostly transferred in from various regiments - many of the officer being "attached" and this shows up as their medal entitlements are often to their original regiment. I was thinking the officer may have Fusilier collar dogs rather than RA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 23 April , 2019 Share Posted 23 April , 2019 19 hours ago, Ottolini said: If you zoom right in you can make out the Ubique scrolls below the ball of the grenade, so I'd say defiantly RA. Interesting that the Officers were drafted in, I take it they wore the MMG badge with their original collar badge? Officers posted straight in I assume the standard MGC collars? Any photos of this practice would be great, sorry if I'm going off topic! Cheers all Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottolini Posted 24 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Chris - This was taken prior to the formation of the MGC which was created in Oct 1915. His badges had RA printed on them after MMGS -- does RA stand for Royal Artillery ? Thats it for my photos - other than a photo where he wrote Jubbleport on the back which helped me (via David Murdoch) pinpoint him as 14th battalion. Cheers Lorraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 15 hours ago, Ottolini said: Chris - This was taken prior to the formation of the MGC which was created in Oct 1915. His badges had RA printed on them after MMGS -- does RA stand for Royal Artillery ? Thats it for my photos - other than a photo where he wrote Jubbleport on the back which helped me (via David Murdoch) pinpoint him as 14th battalion. Cheers Lorraine Hi I collect and have always been interested in badges, David murdoch was a great help with information about MMG badges and insignia to me in the past. The original MMG batteries were put under the admin of the Royal Field Artillery and wore the badges and insignia of the Royal Artillery, when the MMG cap badge was designed in December 1914 the cap badge was issued but the original members of the MMG's would have retained their RFA titles and Sgt's the RA gun badge over their stripes, this I've seen on a few occasions, just to show they are old hands i suppose, but all wore the prized MMG cap badge. Officers, like this RA chap would have wore the MMG bronze version of the cap badge with their original insignia. On creation of the MGC all ranks were supposed to wear just the MMG badges, but David has informed me the prized badge was worn well after the armistice, with CO's permission of course. When you say his badges had RA printed on them after MMG's, may i ask which badges do you mean please? Oh and thank for this thread, its been most interesting and intriguing. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottolini Posted 25 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2019 The medals are posted earlier on in this thread. British war medal and victory medal both have the engraving (after name, number, rank) MMGS-RA . Glad to have meaning of the RA. It’s quite exciting learning about my great grandfathers war experience. Computers are the best sometimes !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 27 April , 2019 Share Posted 27 April , 2019 This is the whole of 14th MMG battery drawn up in parade order - probably just prior to mobilising to France. The chap standing centre will be the CO and his car off to the left. The three standing by the solo motorcycles are the three section officers in front of their sections. It looks like the one to the left is the same chap in the section photo. There are at least three more solo motorbikes and the support trucks and Army Service Corps personnel to the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 11 May , 2019 Share Posted 11 May , 2019 Just had some interesting correspondence regarding one of the other men who came up in this thread. Now confirming that 952 Alexander Kellas who went to France the same day in 1915 as Fred Mowbray and demobbed the same day in 1920 - was definitely an original member of 14th MMG and served in India 1918/1919 (standing centre in group photo). He was from Aberdeen and also emigrated to Canada in 1920 and at the 1921 Canada Census his family lived in the same street in Toronto as Fred Mowbray! 14th MMG were based at Jubbulpur (Jabalpur) the milestone in the photo is at the small town of Singrampur on the Damoh - Jabalpur Road. I'd now be pretty confident to say that 660 Rhydwon Jones and 721 Herbert Hulm with the same dates of entry and discharge were also 14th Battery members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 February , 2020 Share Posted 3 February , 2020 Thank you, I have found this thread most interesting as I’ve been searching for details of my Great Uncle who was in the 15th Battalion, just to see the photos you have posted has been amazing as the MGM section has been a nightmare to find. If anyone has a photo of the 15th I would love to see it. My Great Uncle was William Henry Jones 703, rank: Gunner. killed 6/9/16 and buried at Deville Wood cemetery. William enlisted at Stoke on trent may 1915 and was sent to France 27/7/15. I am hoping there is a photo around somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 3 February , 2020 Share Posted 3 February , 2020 4 hours ago, Sally Ronchetti said: William enlisted at Stoke on trent may 1915 and was sent to France 27/7/15. The France date is correct, but I would have thought that he enlisted a lot earlier than May 1915? (stand to be corrected though!) His 'Soldiers Effects' record gives his war gratuity. From this Forum member Craig can probably give you his enlistment date. I will ask him to have a look. BillyH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 February , 2020 Share Posted 3 February , 2020 34 minutes ago, BillyH said: The France date is correct, but I would have thought that he enlisted a lot earlier than May 1915? (stand to be corrected though!) His 'Soldiers Effects' record gives his war gratuity. From this Forum member Craig can probably give you his enlistment date. I will ask him to have a look. BillyH. The war gratuity was £5 10s net, £7 10s gross. For a private (gunner) this gives 17 months of qualifying service at the date of death. The enlistment was in the month from 4 April 1915. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 3 February , 2020 Share Posted 3 February , 2020 Thanks for that Craig, his training seemed to be suspiciously short to me. BillyH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 3 February , 2020 Share Posted 3 February , 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said: The war gratuity was £5 10s net, £7 10s gross. For a private (gunner) this gives 17 months of qualifying service at the date of death. The enlistment was in the month from 4 April 1915. Craig 704 MMGS H R Key enlisted 19/4/1915 - known date from his Silver War Badge record. At this point the consecutive service numbers do not always correspond to dates of enlistment as 686 enlisted on 22/4/1915. In addition the MMGS were also still filling their ranks with soldiers transferred from other units. On the MMGS being formed they put out word for men required and many motorcycling types who had rushed to enlist early jumped at the chance to transfer - so many of the low numbers the MMGS service number is actually their second. Their original unit and number sometimes but not always appear on their medal cards as they were not overseas with their original units. Typically you see men enlisting late 1914 to a regiment and would have been training in the UK. In addition the MMGS number for them would be allocated from when they were officially transferred on paper - so sometimes can be confusing. 888 had been in France since 22/2/1915 and was wounded in action on Hill 60 in April 1915 with 4th Battery - so it looks like he was still on paper with his original (Black Watch) number. War diary for 15th MMG is very poor and does not give any useful information. Edited 3 February , 2020 by david murdoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulsten Posted 7 February , 2020 Share Posted 7 February , 2020 Sadly does not appear to have a photograph within the weekly sentinel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 7 February , 2020 Share Posted 7 February , 2020 I don't have an identified photo of 15th Battery in my files either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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