LightHiker Posted 22 March , 2019 Share Posted 22 March , 2019 (edited) Hi everyone, just hoping you can help me out with some markings on what I believe to be a Prussian/German M73 WWI artillery saber. I've figured out that it was made in 1904 by the "04" on the spine, and the scabbard is at least made in 1906 (one ring model), but the unit markings on the pommel are giving me some trouble. It reads: G.A.F.II.14.H.42. Can anyone help me figure out what they mean? I've been googling my hardest but I can't come up with anything that feels definitive. Thanks for your help! I've uploaded an image of the pommel here: https://ibb.co/cxVkjNJ Edited 22 March , 2019 by LightHiker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 March , 2019 Share Posted 22 March , 2019 Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment, Bataillon Nr.2, Haubitz-Batterie Nr.14, Waffe Nr.42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 March , 2019 Share Posted 22 March , 2019 8 hours ago, shippingsteel said: Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment... Ho SS, where have you been hiding? Certainly that first bit, not sure about the next bit but last bit ok! Let me check the files when I get back home. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightHiker Posted 22 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2019 9 hours ago, shippingsteel said: Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment, Bataillon Nr.2, Haubitz-Batterie Nr.14, Waffe Nr.42 You are amazing! Thank you so much! BTW where do you learn this stuff? I don't even know where to start haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightHiker Posted 22 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2019 1 hour ago, trajan said: Certainly that first bit, not sure about the next bit but last bit ok! Let me check the files when I get back home. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 March , 2019 Share Posted 22 March , 2019 48 minutes ago, LightHiker said: Thank you! 10 hours ago, shippingsteel said: Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment, Bataillon Nr.2, Haubitz-Batterie Nr.14, Waffe Nr.42 OK, "G.A.F.II.14.H.42." Well, SS was almost right, I think. I could not agree with that "Batallion 2" interpretation - seemed odd to me, because that "II" didn't fit with how the German army was organised - and how it marked stuff... So, I did a search through my files. The German unit marking regulations published as DVE185 in 1909 give as an example that a marking such as "3.A.F.III" is for 3 Fussartillerie Regiment leichte Munitioneskolonne Batallion III, and so I would suggest that "G.A.F.II.14.H.42." might be better read as Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment, Munitioneskolonne Bataillon II, Haubitz-Batterie Nr.14, Waffe Nr.42. If I am wrong I will be corrected! Where does one find this information? You have to get copies of the original documents and/or reprints of these. And read them and know them... Oh, and LightHiker, I see that you are new here - welcome on behalf of myself and my mate SS and others! We do actually have a specialised thread on German unit marks, somewhere, on GWForum for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightHiker Posted 22 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2019 1 hour ago, trajan said: OK, "G.A.F.II.14.H.42." Well, SS was almost right, I think. I could not agree with that "Batallion 2" interpretation - seemed odd to me, because that "II" didn't fit with how the German army was organised - and how it marked stuff... So, I did a search through my files. The German unit marking regulations published as DVE185 in 1909 give as an example that a marking such as "3.A.F.III" is for 3 Fussartillerie Regiment leichte Munitioneskolonne Batallion III, and so I would suggest that "G.A.F.II.14.H.42." might be better read as Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment, Munitioneskolonne Bataillon II, Haubitz-Batterie Nr.14, Waffe Nr.42. If I am wrong I will be corrected! Where does one find this information? You have to get copies of the original documents and/or reprints of these. And read them and know them... Oh, and LightHiker, I see that you are new here - welcome on behalf of myself and my mate SS and others! We do actually have a specialised thread on German unit marks, somewhere, on GWForum for future reference. Thank you so much! I've read a ton about WWII but I'm just starting my journey into WWI; looks like I've found a great resource here! I spent some time in France last year and had the chance to see a few cemeteries and battlegrounds from both wars; I can't wait to get back there and see more once I've really studied this stuff so I can appreciate it more. That saber is a family heirloom (great uncle brought it back) and no one from my parent's generation knew anything about it. Now I just need to figure out how to find who it was issued to... I recently found a few WWI era rifles in a pawn shop and of course brought them home; now I need to do the research on every little mark on them too haha Thanks again for the warm welcome and thank you both for your help in this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 March , 2019 Share Posted 22 March , 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, shippingsteel said: Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment, Bataillon Nr.2, Haubitz-Batterie Nr.14, Waffe Nr.42 The various abteilungs (departments, divisions) of a complete Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment were known as Bataillons and were always denoted with the Roman numerals. See THIS postcard sent from the 1st Bataillon of this Regiment. https://oldthing.de/Militaria-WK1-Garde-Fussartillerie-Regiment-Militaria-WK1-0024027177 The II. Bataillon of the Garde-Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment was garrisoned in Spandau, Berlin and at the start of the war formed part of the Garde-Reserve-Korps, as Korpstruppen (independent unit). See THIS breakdown of the Garde-Reserve-Korps, 2nd Bataillon towards bottom of box. http://genwiki.genealogy.net/Garde-Reserve-Korps_(WK1) Edited 22 March , 2019 by shippingsteel Add link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 March , 2019 Share Posted 24 March , 2019 (edited) On 23/03/2019 at 00:52, shippingsteel said: The various abteilungs (departments, divisions) of a complete Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment were known as Bataillons and were always denoted with the Roman numerals. See THIS postcard sent from the 1st Bataillon of this Regiment. https://oldthing.de/Militaria-WK1-Garde-Fussartillerie-Regiment-Militaria-WK1-0024027177 The II. Bataillon of the Garde-Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment was garrisoned in Spandau, Berlin and at the start of the war formed part of the Garde-Reserve-Korps, as Korpstruppen (independent unit). See THIS breakdown of the Garde-Reserve-Korps, 2nd Bataillon towards bottom of box. http://genwiki.genealogy.net/Garde-Reserve-Korps_(WK1) Many thanks SS for the correction here on how Abteilungen in a Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment were known as Bataillons! We live and we learn... I have searched high and low for an official unit-marking referencing a Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment Bataillon, the only close thing being how the 1897 regulations does give as an example "6.A.F.B.2", for "6 Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment Bataillonstabe, Waffe 2". Nothing else there. However, at the bottom of p. 14 of the 1909 unit marking regulations it states (see attachment below for the original, line 1 and the end of line 4 with lines 5 and 6): "Die römischen Zahlen werden angewendet zur Bezeichnung … der Feldartillerie-Abteilungen und Fussartillerie-Bataillonen in Verbindung mit den Stempelzeichnen fur die leichten Munitionskolonnen". Which I translate as: "Roman numerals are used to designate ... the light ammunition columns when used in combination with the unit marks for the field artillery divisions and foot artillery battalions." This would agree with actual examples provided in the 1909 regulations, e.g., "3.A.F.II.1.H.80." means "3 Fuss-Artillerie-Regiment leichte Munitionskolonne II Bataillon, 1 Haubitz-Batterie Waffe 80". So I am as certain as can be that my entry at post 6 was at least part-correct. "G.A.F.II.H.14.42" will be for "Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment, leichte Munitionskolonne II Bataillon, 14 Haubitz-Batterie Waffe 42. Best wishes, Trajan Doc4.pdf Edited 24 March , 2019 by trajan clarify text in uploaded file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 March , 2019 Share Posted 24 March , 2019 1 hour ago, trajan said: So I am as certain as can be that my entry at post 6 was at least part-correct. "G.A.F.II.H.14.42" will be for "Garde Fuss-Artillerie Regiment, leichte Munitionskolonne II Bataillon, 14 Haubitz-Batterie Waffe 42. Doc4.pdf 343.52 kB · 2 downloads Thought it might be useful to expand on the above - as I understand it! So, this is weapon 42 of the light munitions column of batallion II, for the 14 Haubitz-Batterie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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