Richard Bytheway - Connaught Rangers??

[DSw99]

Hi,

 

I am researching my ancestors and my great grandmother's younger brother, Richard Bytheway, is my current subject and I have to admit I'm a bit stumped.

 

He was born in one of the tied houses at Seymour Colliery just outside Staveley in Derbyshire in 1892. I don't think his enlistment papers have survived but he became a Private in the 5th (service) Battn Connaught Rangers (No. 3157), killed in action 21-22 Aug 1915 on an attack at Hill 60, Gallipoli.

 

I have his Army soldiers' effects record and his medal card but nothing else. Any thoughts on how a coal miner from Staveley might end up in the Connaught Rangers would be a helpful start if anyone has any ideas.

 

Many thanks, David

 

 

[Langdon]

His entry in Ancestry's Soldiers Died in the Great War records shows that he was resident in Yorkshire on enlistment and he had been in the Yorks and Lancs:

 

Name:Richard Bytheway

Birth Place:Staveley, Derby

Residence:Rotherham, Yorks

Death Date:22 Aug 1915

Death Place:Gallipoli

Enlistment Place:Rotherham

Rank:Private

Regiment:Connaught Rangers

Battalion:5th Battalion

Regimental Number:3157

Type of Casualty:Killed in action

Theatre of War:Balkan Theatre

Comments:Formerly 14663, Yorks and Lancs Regt.

 

Mike

[Langdon]

The 5th Battalion war diary is available if you have or can gain access to Ancestry here or is downloadable here at the National Archives for a small fee.

 

Mike

[Mark1959]

The date of qualification for the 1914/15 Star is changed from 21/7/1915 to 29/7/1915. This is done for quite a few men on the roll. This suggests they arrived in Gallipoli on or after the 29th. This may be reflected in the War Diary.

Edit

The 5th Battalion left Devonport on 9/7. Arrived Alaxandria on 23/7 but did not disembark. Disembarked on the island of Mudros 29/7. Seems landed at Gallipoli early on 6/8.

Edited 17 March , 2019 by Mark1959

[PRC]

3 hours ago, DSw99 said:

I have his Army soldiers' effects record and his medal card but nothing else. Any thoughts on how a coal miner from Staveley might end up in the Connaught Rangers would be a helpful start if anyone has any ideas.

 

Looks like he went from being 14663 York and Lancaster Regiment to 3157 Connaught Rangers.

 

So starting with nearby service numbers in the Connaught Rangers:-

 

3158 Thomas Broom has a MiC noted "Reg. as dead". Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW), has resident Walsall, enlisted Rotherham, Yorks and KiA 28/08/1915. No mention of Yorks and Lancs in the supplementary information but thats not conclusive either way.

(Apologies but my copy of SDGW is playing up at the moment - the provider has chosen not to display place of birth even though there is a field for it and it's in the underlying database)

 

3159 George Brunt \ George H. Brunt, (2 MiCs, one as 5/3159). Discharged 3-1-19 as no longer physically fit. Enlisted 4-9-14

 

3160 - 3162 have no match

 

Looks to be in roughly alphabetical order so sounds like a draft of men rather than recruitment order.

 

Going back to look at the York and Lancaster service numbers

 

14658 Edwin B. Tupman, 9th York and Lancaster entered the France and Flanders Theatre of War 27th August 1915. Looks like there are surviving service records and SWB badge medal roll.

14661 John A Sanderson, 9th York and Lancaster entered the France and Flanders Theatre of War 27th August 1915. MiC noted DoW 4-10-17. SDGW enlisted Rotherham.

14665 John Bradshaw 6th York and Lancaster entered the Balkans Theatre of War on the 2nd July 1915.

14668 John Fairhurst 6th York and Lancaster entered the Balkans Theatre of War on the 11th July 1915.

 

So potentially if the 6th York and Lancs arrived in Theatre over strength, or a draft arrived while they were sat on Mudros waiting to land, the surplus men could have been redistributed to other units - but please bear in mind that is just speculation and there could be many ways he ended up in the 5th Connaught Rangers even at that stage of the war.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

[ss002d6252]

The war gratuity tells us he enlisted in the month from 22 Aug 1914.

 

Looking at other men confirms the the Y&L was his first unit.
 

#14461 enlisted 2 Sep 14
#14468 enlisted 4 Sep 14

Craig

[DSw99]

14 hours ago, PRC said:

 

Looks like he went from being 14663 York and Lancaster Regiment to 3157 Connaught Rangers.

 

So starting with nearby service numbers in the Connaught Rangers:-

 

3158 Thomas Broom has a MiC noted "Reg. as dead". Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW), has resident Walsall, enlisted Rotherham, Yorks and KiA 28/08/1915. No mention of Yorks and Lancs in the supplementary information but thats not conclusive either way.

(Apologies but my copy of SDGW is playing up at the moment - the provider has chosen not to display place of birth even though there is a field for it and it's in the underlying database)

 

3159 George Brunt \ George H. Brunt, (2 MiCs, one as 5/3159). Discharged 3-1-19 as no longer physically fit. Enlisted 4-9-14

 

3160 - 3162 have no match

 

Looks to be in roughly alphabetical order so sounds like a draft of men rather than recruitment order.

 

Going back to look at the York and Lancaster service numbers

 

14658 Edwin B. Tupman, 9th York and Lancaster entered the France and Flanders Theatre of War 27th August 1915. Looks like there are surviving service records and SWB badge medal roll.

14661 John A Sanderson, 9th York and Lancaster entered the France and Flanders Theatre of War 27th August 1915. MiC noted DoW 4-10-17. SDGW enlisted Rotherham.

14665 John Bradshaw 6th York and Lancaster entered the Balkans Theatre of War on the 2nd July 1915.

14668 John Fairhurst 6th York and Lancaster entered the Balkans Theatre of War on the 11th July 1915.

 

So potentially if the 6th York and Lancs arrived in Theatre over strength, or a draft arrived while they were sat on Mudros waiting to land, the surplus men could have been redistributed to other units - but please bear in mind that is just speculation and there could be many ways he ended up in the 5th Connaught Rangers even at that stage of the war.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

 

Sounds like a plausible theory - I have got the Connaught Rangers war diary and it cites reinforcements joining in Mudros at the very beginning of August, the timing of which fits in with your suggestion.

[Murrough]

The 5th Connaught received a draft of 350 men on the 11/9/14 from Pontefract, most men were former Y/L men.

Source : 5th Service Battalion Connaught Rangers by Col.Jourdain.

 

Some more info added below.

 I should have added some backround information.The 5th Connaughts were destined for the 10th Irish division but there was competition from the 16th Irish and 36th Ulster divisions for recruits and recruiting was in a state of flux.They had a major weed out of older and infirm men before they left for Gallipoli and received drafts from the 16th div as late as June 1915.Thsy also lost other men who joined other unis or remained as instructors.

It was suggested that some of the English recruits had Irish ancestry or were of the catholic faith and this may have influenced their transfer to the Connaughts,I can find no definitive answer, but I think myself that poor recruiting in Ireland and over subscription in Yorkshire may have be the real reason.

The 2nd in command of the 5th Connaughts,Major Bryan Cooper was very impressed with the Yorkshire men whom he described as good fighters and tenacious.Cooper wrote the history of the 10th Irish division at Gallipoli.

The 5th connaughts had a hot time in Gallipoli ,they landed at anzac and were helping the anzacs during the early august battles, they were mainly involved in providing medical help and stretcher bearer duties.Their most noted major attack was at Kabak Kuyu Wells on the 21/8/15 when they routed the turks in a daring daylight bayonet attack but suffered heavy casualties, the attack went down in Rangers folklore

Edited 20 March , 2019 by Murrough
added information.