gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Share Posted 12 March , 2019 Hello I am trying to find information regarding my Grandfather James Albert Hall. We know that he served in the Scottish Rifles, only because we have a photo where we was able to identify his badge,as being from the regiment. After much research, I am going along the lines that he is PTE 33570, as this is the most likely. I have found the medal card and roll, which shows he would have served in the 8th battalion. However I have been unable to find a service record. Therefore can't confirm that this is my Grandfather. I wondered if anyone has any advice as to what else I can do. The information I have is Born 1890 Married 1913 Islington Died 1974 Chichester He would have lived in Islington, London during the war years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 12 March , 2019 Share Posted 12 March , 2019 41 minutes ago, gc1 said: Hello I am trying to find information regarding my Grandfather James Albert Hall. We know that he served in the Scottish Rifles, only because we have a photo where we was able to identify his badge,as being from the regiment. After much research, I am going along the lines that he is PTE 33570, as this is the most likely. I have found the medal card and roll, which shows he would have served in the 8th battalion. However I have been unable to find a service record. Therefore can't confirm that this is my Grandfather. I wondered if anyone has any advice as to what else I can do. The information I have is Born 1890 Married 1913 Islington Died 1974 Chichester He would have lived in Islington, London during the war years. Can you post the photo ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2019 Yes, this is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 12 March , 2019 Share Posted 12 March , 2019 2 hours ago, gc1 said: The information I have is Born 1890 Married 1913 Islington Died 1974 Chichester He would have lived in Islington, London during the war years. The marriage in Islington in 1913 looks to have been to an Ellen A. Sargant. There are three potential childrens whose births were registered in the Edmonton Civil Registration District between 1914 & 1921, followed by some in the Romford District, (1923 & 1931). All are shown with surname Hall, mothers' maiden name Sargant. The first three were Doris N, (Q3 1914), Edgar J.H. (Q1 1918) and William G, (Q2 1921). Of the three, Edgar would appear to be the one most likely to have been born whilst James was serving - there is nothing on the Medal Index Card to indicate he was discharged early, (although that source is not entirely conclusive). The birth certificate for Edgar, if he was a son of your grandfather, would show fathers' regiment and rank, plus possibly battalion and sometimes even service number. Low cost birth certificates intended just for genealogy purposes are available as pdf's directly from the General Registrars Office. If it was his son then the home address on the birth certificate would also give you a better chance of finding James on the Absent Voters List for 1918 & 1919 - see https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/ Hope that helps, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2019 Peter Many thanks for your reply and for looking into this. I should have explained further. I am aware of the marriage and of his children as they would have been my aunts and uncles and in fact my dad his son is still alive born 1935. The marriage was in st pancras to Catherine Alice Barnes. However I hadn't realised that his children's birth certificates would show his regiment and rank.That is really useful, I'll check the dates and apply for those copies. I do know the address so I'll also look on the absent voters list. Much appreciated Jayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2019 I have a baptism certificate for one of his Daughters dated 11th June 1916, showing his occupation as a car man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 12 March , 2019 Share Posted 12 March , 2019 13 minutes ago, gc1 said: The marriage was in st pancras to Catherine Alice Barnes. The marriage is showing as having taken place in the Holborn Civil Registration District - they're just playing with our minds :-) 2 minutes ago, gc1 said: I have a baptism certificate for one of his Daughters dated 11th June 1916, showing his occupation as a car man. So almost certainly conscripted, although as a married man born 1890 he would have been called up by May 1916 unless he got a deferral as a result of work - which is difficult to see a Car Man getting. If you have the time, and patience, you might want to see if there are surviving service records for men with nearby service numbers as that may at least give you some idea as to when he was called up and the early part of his army career. Good luck with your search, regards, Peter P.S. I trust none of the children died during the war years, but if they did and the birth certificates approach doesn't pan out, then there is also the chance that the military service information will be present on the childs death certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 12 March , 2019 Admin Share Posted 12 March , 2019 Near number sampling suggest 33570 was issued early April 1917. 33575 was a Derby Scheme man who attested December 1915 and was called up for service on the 3 April 1917. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58 Div Mule Posted 12 March , 2019 Share Posted 12 March , 2019 Quite a striking photograph in my opinion. I'm taken by what appears to be a neckerchief worn at the collar. A common item among ordinary working men of the period but enough to render a Colour Sergeant speechless on sight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2019 44 minutes ago, kenf48 said: 33575 was a Derby Scheme man who attested December 1915 and was called up for service on the 3 April 1917. Ken Many thanks for this information, this date makes perfect sense, going by the dates of his children's births. So at least this another clue that I have the right soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2019 33 minutes ago, 58 Div Mule said: Quite a striking photograph in my opinion. I'm taken by what appears to be a neckerchief worn at the collar. A common item among ordinary working men of the period but enough to render a Colour Sergeant speechless on sight! It is a great photo! We seem to come up with idea that he wore the neckerchief to stop any chafing from these rough jackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 12 March , 2019 Share Posted 12 March , 2019 1 hour ago, kenf48 said: Near number sampling suggest 33570 was issued early April 1917. 33575 was a Derby Scheme man who attested December 1915 and was called up for service on the 3 April 1917. Ken, is there any obvious explanation in the papers for the late call-up, i.e. occupation or medical category. If it's the latter then another possible explanation for the neckerchief worn on the photograph. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 12 March , 2019 Admin Share Posted 12 March , 2019 2 hours ago, PRC said: Ken, is there any obvious explanation in the papers for the late call-up, i.e. occupation or medical category. If it's the latter then another possible explanation for the neckerchief worn on the photograph. Cheers, Peter Not really, aged 41 on enlistment Pte 33575 McIntyre was posted to France in January 1918, joined the 1st Bn on 2nd February and was in hospital for a short stay on the 11th. Occupation given as 'Janitor'. That said it was not unusual for married Derby Scheme men to obtain exemption from a sympathetic Tribunal but the manpower crisis in early 1917 meant home service men were 'combed out' and posted overseas and it became much more difficult to secure exemption from military service. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2019 16 minutes ago, kenf48 said: Not really, aged 41 on enlistment Pte 33575 McIntyre was posted to France in January 1918, joined the 1st Bn on 2nd February and was in hospital for a short stay on the 11th. Occupation given as 'Janitor'. That said it was not unusual for married Derby Scheme men to obtain exemption from a sympathetic Tribunal but the manpower crisis in early 1917 meant home service men were 'combed out' and posted overseas and it became much more difficult to secure exemption from military service. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2019 Ken The details you have are different to mine. Is your man a different regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1 Posted 12 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2019 Sorry just realised you was looking for a man who enlisted at a similar time, and these are his details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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