The Armagh Special Reserve

[Don Monaghan]

Hi Everyone.

My Grandfather Robert Monaghan RIF was wounded 1st July 1916 at the Somme he was captured at the Retreat from San Quentin 1918, and was released from Limburg Nov 1918 . I do have his service number etc which I can certainly let you have if required ( his Brother William was Kia ...body never found at langermark) .

Now what I am researching at the moment is : my grandfather Robert Monaghan is listed in the 1911 census as a soldier , have been in touch with Nick Metclafe ( Blackers Boys) Nick good me that my grandfather was probably n the Special Reserve at that time which would explain why both he and his brother William signed up in Nov 1915 and were both in D coy 9th (service ) bat RIF. , Is there a way I might be able to confirm that it was the Armagh Special Reserve ? It's the missing part of the puzzle, I have a sword that he kept ( out of sight , for whatever his reasons were , but he never talked about it) the sword has been confirmed as an Armagh Milita sword.

I am sorry for going on to long , but I need to at least try and get this puzzle all together.. I am getting on a bit myself and have always wondered where and how he came by the sword, as he remained a private the entire war.

Thank you for your time in advance

Don

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Don, and welcome to the Forum!

 

3rd (Special Reserve) Bn of the Royal Irish Fusiliers was based at Armagh. 9th (Service) Bn (County Armagh) was raised from the Armagh, Monaghan and Cavan Volunteers in September 1914 and joined the Ulster Division. It looks as if your grandfather was in 3rd Bn before the War, but volunteered to serve overseas and joined 9th Bn, possibly on its formation.

 

He may possibly have been a staff-sergeant in 3rd Bn, which would explain the sword. He would not necessarily have kept this rank when he joined the 9th Bn.

 

Ron

[Bordercollie]

There is a surviving service record for a Robert Monaghan of Newtownhamilton Armagh born in 1891. If that is your grandfather he was a regular soldier serving at the Depot of the Royal Irish Fusiliers in April 1911. That Robert Monaghan had enlisted for 7 years with the Colours and 5 years on the Reserve on 7^th March 1911 but he was discharged in October 1912. If you have access to Find My Past you will be able to view his service record there.

[Don Monaghan]

Thank you Both so much.. 

That explains a lot. 

He was Robert Monaghan born 25th November 1891 at Newtownhamilton Co Armagh

I knew him well as he lived until 1971. But he never spoke about those days.. Thank you again

I now have some more to go on this is him in In uniform.. 

 

[FROGSMILE]

The photo seems to show your grandfather wearing the RIF one-piece shoulder title that the soldiers nicknamed ‘Quails’ (in reference to the Eagles on the ball of the grenade) and that replaced the two-piece titles comprising block letters and the plain and simple ‘universal grenade’.

It does seem likely that he was a Special Reservist still under obligation via the 5-years reserve part of his 7 and 5 engagement, although it appears odd that he was not called forward until 1915.  Most regular reservists seem to have been called up in 1914, but perhaps the RIF did not need as many reservists to bring their 1st and 2nd (i.e. regular) Battalions up to their wartime establishment strength, as other regiments did.  
 

Going to a ‘Service’ Battalion (raised by Lord Kitchener for the duration of the war only) was unusual for a regular reservist, as those battalions were specifically intended for citizen volunteers.  My guess is that he might have been one of a nucleus of ex regulars intended to give the new battalion a backbone of experienced men.  
 

The enclosed photos show soldiers of the 9th (S) Battalion RIF (Co Armagh).  One is from Oct 1914 and a few veterans can be seen via their obvious age and medal ribbons.  The other photo was taken in late Nov 1918 and shows various pet dogs and what seems to be a donkey mascot.

 

As regards the sword, it seems more likely to me to have been a family heirloom.  The old Armagh Militia did eventually become the 3rd Battalion RIF, but unless he was a pre-war sergeant on the battalion HQ Staff and wore review order he would not need a sword.  The swords of the staff sergeants had leather scabbards and were issued at public expense, whereas those of officers were privately purchased and had metal scabbards.

Edited 22 November , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Don Monaghan]

Thank you.  Some of it makes sense. When he enlisted. He did so at the same day as his brother William Monaghan 23300 rif Kia 16 Aug 1917.... Which is a little puzzling. 

I have enclosed a photo of the sword in question..and also a photo of him and his brother taken in Belfast and sent as a postcard just before they left for France. The one sitting is William Monaghan 23300 Rif. Perhaps you might make more sense of it than I personally have been able to find.. 

Thank you so much for All your input. I fully respect that 

Don

[FROGSMILE]

Both men in your photo are wearing belts from the 1914 pattern leather equipment that was issued to make up for the shortfall in cotton web equipment used by the regulars.  Pretty much all the war-raised ‘Service Battalions’ (i.e. hostilities only) were issued with the leather type.  The standing fellow is much younger than the one seated so perhaps Robert is the seated one?  The lad standing is wearing a simplified pattern jacket (without pocket pleats or shoulder reinforcement), which was issued early in the war to speed up production.  This type of photo is very common for men about to go to France and Flanders and often done for family and other loved ones.

 

The sword is a standard infantry pattern from the 1890s, but with the special hilt pattern for units with a light infantry heritage, comprising a bugle horn surmounted by Queen Victoria’s Crown.  This fits for the 3rd RIF specifically and is a historical link to the fact that the unit’s origins lie with the Armagh Militia, which was given special title as a light infantry unit in 1855.  The scabbard appears to be a pattern introduced for wear with brown leather equipment, either of Sam Browne type, or the simpler belt and ‘carriage’ (2-suspension straps) used by staff sergeants.  It would typically have still been in use for the 2nd Boer War 1899-1902.

Edited 23 November , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Don Monaghan]

Hi .

Sorry its been a while.

The Soldier sitting down us Definitely William Monaghan 23300 KIA 1917

Standing is me Grandad Robert Monaghan .

William was born Newtown Hamilton 1885

Robert was Born Newtown Hamilton 

1890/91

Robert was also taken POW 27th March 1918 during the Spring offence.. released 27th November 1918.

The photo was sent as a postcard to family just prior to them leaving Belfast 

The sword ( in my possession) was an item Robert kept hidden.from sight. He was adamant no one touched it. No excuses or references to how he got if. 

Robert was a brethren of the Bessbrook Volunteers L.O.L which was resolved in the mid 1960 ( now in Sloane's House) , only those that survived were in the lounge. I had the honour to hoke a streamer of the banner in 1960.

Thank you all for your patience and your appreciated knowledge. 

The family hailed from TullyHana "The Monaghan homestead" CastleBlaney Road Newtown Hamilton. Bought by William Monaghan 1790. That's as far back as I can go with it . All family members prior to 1905 are buried in The COI Newtown Hamilton wither its the Iod One if the present  one i cant find out ..

Thank you yet again 

Donald 

[Keith_history_buff]

I have been left with the impression that the Special Reserve terms of service, as a means of recruiting infantrymen, was seen to have served its purpose by the end of 1914, and that the British Army preferred that new recruits would enlist under General Service terms of regular service, amended 7 November 1914, to serve for the duration of the war.

The challenge with the Special Reserve men is that they had their own numbering sequence, and their own enlistment book. I don't think it likely that neither 23300 William Monaghan (1885-1917) nor Robert Monaghan (1891-1971) would have enlisted under terms other than "duration of war", and that the numbers would be higher than the SR sequence. Given that  11411 joined the regulars on 14th January 1914*   I think these are from the number sequence used by the regulars.


* Source
https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/search/label/Royal Irish Fusiliers

[Keith_history_buff]

War Office Daily List No.5747 dated 13 Dec 1918

Released Prisoner of War from Germany, arrived in England 

Monaghan, R (Bessbrook)
22981, Private, Royal Irish Fusiliers 

 

 

[Don Monaghan]

I had asked Nick Metcalf about than issue ..he suggested that service numbers were not issued in order. But rather issued randomly. 

They signed up on the same day in Newry.  

Actually Nick said that Robert Monaghan sign up was done twice, according to records he has access too 

He suggested that my grandfather was sent back to England following his wounds on the 1st july 1916. Because it appears  later nearer 1917/8 .

A conundrum .. its difficult to follow his exploits at times.  He was In the Milita5 earlier than William who was a Farm Labourer in the 1901 census.and doesnt appear in the 1911 census. But did sign.the Ulster Covent.. 

[Keith_history_buff]

I have come across a militia enlistment for William John Monaghan, son of William. He was in the Royal Irish Rifles, 5687.

He has a place of birth of Ballynahinch, Down. Geography is not my strong suit, and this location may be way off.

[Don Monaghan]

5 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

War Office Daily List No.5747 dated 13 Dec 1918

Released Prisoner of War from Germany, arrived in England 

Monaghan, R (Bessbrook)
22981, Private, Royal Irish Fusiliers 

 

 

Yes i have the Records. Had research done by the RIF Musium. 

He is on the arrival at Hull on the 27th November.. then he arrived home ( Bessbrook) for Christmas 1918 but thank you for the exact date 3rd.that i didnt know. 

I thought I knew everything about him i was 17 when he died.. but i dont suppose i ever know about his time in Limburg!!! But I'll try 

[Keith_history_buff]

Good to know that you have a lot of his service history already. These War Office lists are useful for knowing when their repatriation was announced, but it's infinitely better to know the actual date they disembarked.

[Don Monaghan]

5 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

I have come across a militia enlistment for William John Monaghan, son of William. He was in the Royal Irish Rifles, 5687.

He has a place of birth of Ballynahinch, Down. Geography is not my strong suit, and this location may be way off.

No he was just William Monaghan born Newtown Hamilton. Royal Irish Fusiliers.

They had a brother called John ( older) but never went to war.. 

[Don Monaghan]

1 minute ago, Keith_history_buff said:

Good to know that you have a lot of his service history already. These War Office lists are useful for knowing when their repatriation was announced, but it's infinitely better to know the actual date they disembarked.

I can send you a copy of the Disembarkation at Hull if you would it. And it serves a purpose.. dies the site allow for that ? 

[Keith_history_buff]

Thanks for the offer, that is kind, but there's no need.

Had they enlisted under Special Reserve terms, in principle they would have ended up in a Reserve battalion, with a view to being drafted to the 1st or the 2nd Battalion. If you enlisted as a Regular, you could specify which unit you joined, hence you see men of a "Pals Battalion" all enlisting together. To this end, I would see it more likely that William and Robert would have wanted to join the 9th (Service) Bn (County Armagh) , especially so if friends from the Bessbrook Volunteers were in the 9th too.

[Don Monaghan]

I totally agree with that. 

 

[Keith_history_buff]

The service record for 10620 William Monaghan, attesting at Newry on 7 March 1911, starts with 21 days detention on 5 June 1911 for 'making a wilfully false answer to a question set forth in the Attestation Paper.' Question 10 asks if he is currently serving, question 11 asks if he has served in the military. Whatever it was, it was a relatively minor punishment, and he did not get kicked out for this. There is no indication as to whatever the false answer was, but I am wondering if he failed to declare prior service in the Special Reserve or the Militia. 

 

[Don Monaghan]

I have to say that doesn't sound like him. He was.born in 1885. And around the 6" mark as were they all. That is william sitting down in the photo , my grandad was over 6' and williams knees are further up that my grandad. 

Interesting for sure, i will look into it 

He lived in MarketHill prior to the war as far as I know.. 

Thank you very much, Possible apart from the age and height. Certainly worth a look. 

Edited 12 April by Don Monaghan
To confirm his height

[Keith_history_buff]

That preview is a screenshot on that thread, and relates to a soldier named John Smith who enlisted in 1870, nothing whatsoever to do with 10620 William Monaghan, attesting at Newry on 7 March 1911.

[Don Monaghan]

Just now, Keith_history_buff said:

That preview is a screenshot on that thread, and relates to a soldier named John Smith who enlisted in 1870, nothing whatsoever to do with 10620 William Monaghan, attesting at Newry on 7 March 1911.

Ahh ok .. sorry i took it literally.. 

I shall certainly look into it. Be nice find out something about him , as the family never mentioned the war.. 

Thank for that 

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Whilst the story behind Robert receiving the sword has gone to the grave, I do wonder if it was a gift from a colleague from the Bessbrook Volunteers, and that he was seen as a suitable character to be in custody of it. It is interesting that it has a Victorian crown, which would pre-date any of Robert's service. 

When did the Armagh Militia change its name, would this have been 1881 when it became retitled as the 3rd (Militia) Battalion?

[Keith_history_buff]

Hart's Annual Army List for 1903
Corrected to the 31st December, 1902.
https://archive.org/details/hartsannualarmy1903lond/page/550/mode/1up?q=Irish+Fusiliers

[Don Monaghan]

It was his brother Robert Monaghan 22891 RIF . Also was.in the Special reserve who had the sword. The went to ww1 together. My grandfather "Robert" made it home after being a POW In Limburg camp captured 27th march 1918. Released 27th November 1918 was gone in Bessbrook December 1918 who owned The sword . The sword was.a guilt hilt apparently they were changed  around 1895 . My grandfather wad listed in the 1911 census as being.a soldier. They both signed up in the D Coy 9th ( service) bat Royal Irish Fusiliers 36th Ulster Division .

No one knows.the origin of the sword and it was dismissed in conversation.  It was hidden out if sight, there us more to the sword than any of the family ever found out..

When asked about the ww1 his answer was " lets hope you never have to go through that " . 

The Irish Militias were changed 1905 from Militia to Special reserve. Where mainland militia became T.A. The Irish Division had not happened at that time.  

William Monaghan 23300 RIF was KIA at the Battle of langermark  1916 remains never recovered also signed the Ulster Covenant 1912.

The sword may have been his property. And was left at home when they both went to war.  Or perhaps it came into my grandads ( Robert Monaghan) after the war and during the Irish civil war 1922/23. Which Robert Was involved,  

 

Edited 14 April by Don Monaghan