1916 SMLE III* Questions

[chauncy_78]

I picked up a 1916 BSAco SMLE III*, after a lot of reading forums and websites (allaboutenfields.com) i think i've got a good idea on this rifle.  I'd appreciate anyone else's opinion on it.

 

It bears the expected stamping for a 1916 enfield (Crown, GR, BSAco, 1916, Sht LE III*) .  The receiver, barrel and bolt all bear the same mfg number (C66401) there are no visible cross outs or re-stamps.  Also as expected, the barrel is stamped HV SC to indicate High Velocity Small Cone.

 

The Knox is stamped '16<, which indicates the barrel year and date of initial acceptance into service?

 

There are multiple inspection stamps (Crown, Inspector Number?, B), it also bears the >< marking on the bolt indicating it was sold out of service.

 

The barrel is stamped with the British Clearing house stamps (.303 2.22 18.5 Ton and "NP").

 

The butt plate near the safety has '23 and '26 stampings, i assume these are years of service?  There is also a '34 stamping on the butt plate under the bolt handle. 

 

The markings i cannot identify are a "*" on the barrel and on the knox.  The trigger guard is stamped "SK", and there is a "Y" on the butt plate near the bolt (left hand side).

 

I am at a complete loss for what the medallion on the butt stock may have represented.

 

Everyone appreciates pictures, so here they are.

 

I appreciate everyones comments, as i am intrigued with the history of this rifle.

[derekb]

Hi,

Briefly, the Enfield has been heavily sporterized and personalised.

 

The original round disk would have had abbreviated details of the unit and weapon number to whoever the weapon was issued to, this area has been heavily altered.

 

Regards,

 

Derek

[JMB1943]

Chauncey,

 

Welcome to the forum.

Interesting looking rifle, with the brass fittings added.

If you raise the rear sight-leaf, you should see another serial number on the underside.

Does it match ?

That it still has the original 1916 barrel, despite multiple re-inspections, suggests that it has not seen a lot of use.

 

Regards,

JMB

[JMB1943]

9 hours ago, chauncy_78 said:

The butt plate near the safety has '23 and '26 stampings, i assume these are years of service?  There is also a '34 stamping on the butt plate under the bolt handle. 

The markings i cannot identify are a "*" on the barrel and on the knox.  The trigger guard is stamped "SK", and there is a "Y" on the butt plate near the bolt (left hand side).

 

The '23, '26 and '34 are re-inspection dates.

The * on barrel and knox are defect stamps. "Used on barrels to denote rust pitting, and on components with slight defect but still serviceable."

From The Lee Enfield Rifle, by E.G.B. Reynolds, which is online and can be downloaded..

 

Regards,

JMB

 

Edited 8 February , 2019 by JMB1943
typo

[Marco]

My God, you could have placed a warning before showing pictures of this type of mutilation… 

[Interested]

Just don't drive the vehicle as it is!!!! 

[chauncy_78]

12 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

Chauncey,

 

Welcome to the forum.

Interesting looking rifle, with the brass fittings added.

If you raise the rear sight-leaf, you should see another serial number on the underside.

Does it match ?

That it still has the original 1916 barrel, despite multiple re-inspections, suggests that it has not seen a lot of use.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

The stamped number on the underside of the rear sight  does not match, its a 4 digit number with an H prefix.

 

In general would you say this is a descent rifle or should i be concerned its not safe to shoot?

[4thGordons]

34 minutes ago, chauncy_78 said:

 

 

In general would you say this is a descent rifle or should i be concerned its not safe to shoot?

 

Answering this type of question regarding the safety of weapons/munitions is not permissible on the forum for liability reasons.

 

No intelligent answer can be given based on the photographs you have provided (there is no way to see the headspace, condition of the bore etc etc). If you have doubts about the safety of the rifle then you should have it inspected by a qualified gunsmith (and one who is familiar with Enfields - which are less common than you might believe outside of UK/Aus/Canada/India/S.Africa.

 

This sort of modification of rifles was very common back in the 60s/70s when such surplus rifles were very cheap and these sort of modification made for a cheap and effective hunting rifle. While modern collectors wring their hands at such things (myself included - particularly when it was done to scarce examples) at the time it was common practice and the source rifles were plentiful. The standard varies from professional conversions to hacksaw jobs.

 

In addition to my military collection I have picked up a number of such rifles (those of a sensitive disposition may wish to look away) Sometimes these can be restored to their original appearance - often too much has been altered (and in addition these days furniture is quite scarce and expensive)

 

 

1 1942 Longbranch No4 MkI* (no drill mount)
2 1938 BSA No1 MkIII* (commercial barrel)
3 1944 Ishapore No1 MkIII* (pro sportering?)
4 1917 SSA MkIII
5 1917 Enfield MkIII* (drilled/tapped)
6 1917 BSA (drilled/tapped)
7 1904 BSA MkI*** (new G serial) no bolt head charger but bone insert sights etc
8 19?? (ER cypher) Sht .22 IV* (drilled/tapped)

Edited 9 February , 2019 by 4thGordons

[chauncy_78]

Being that the rifle seems to be mostly original, i figured having an actual gunsmith look at it would be a good idea.  

 

I was more curious on others opinions as to if they thought the rifle was in reasonable condition or if something stands out i missed.  

 

I realize the rifle has been "sporterized", and i thank everyone who responded indicating how much has been converted.

 

I guess my best question is, if you saw this rifle would you purchase it and keep it?

[keithmroberts]

4th Gordon's makes the most important point. There can be no advice offered on the GWF that a weapon is safe to use. Only qualified gunsmiths could offer advice and this is not the place. 

Different countries have their own laws regarding the ownership of firearms and in the UK the law is particularly strict on ownership and sale of any firearms. Wherever you are, check the legal position, and, if it is legal for you to own such a weapon that has not been legally deactivated, do have it properly  checked before allowing ammunition anywhere near it.

 

Keith Roberts

GWF Team.

[derekb]

4th Gordon’s,

Alas,  when I was a lad in Liverpool during the 1950’s, I remember two  men with a hand cart piled high with various Lee Enfield stock parts selling them for firewood on a regular basis, they used to give us some part finished  full length rifle stocks, of what I have no idea, to be used when we played soldiers marching up and down.

 

If only I knew then what I know now.

 

c’est la vie!

Derek.

 

 

[4thGordons]

2 hours ago, derekb said:

4th Gordon’s,

Alas,  when I was a lad in Liverpool during the 1950’s, I remember two  men with a hand cart piled high with various Lee Enfield stock parts selling them for firewood on a regular basis, they used to give us some part finished  full length rifle stocks, of what I have no idea, to be used when we played soldiers marching up and down.

 

If only I knew then what I know now.

 

c’est la vie!

Derek.

 

 

I suspect these might have come from the Factory at Royal Ordnance Factory at Fazackerly which produced No4 rifles up until the mid/late 50s.

 

Supplies of stock parts for ShLEs have dropped off markedly in the last 5 years and simultaneously demand has gone up as people seek to "restore" weapons such as those shown here to their original configuration. I just paid more for an ShtLE front handguard (to replace a damaged one) than I paid for an entire rifle a decade or so ago. It is the way of such things as you say,

Chris