Great Grandad in Uniform - 2/7th Sherwood Foresters - can anyone tell me anything from his uniform?

[PixelDust]

Greetings!

 

This is my Great Grandad Joseph Caine, 2140 / 4962312 . I'm very new to war research and military history, so I'm not sure what I'm looking for. The cap badge seems to be different from the Sherwood Foresters ones I have seen already. Can anyone give me any further information from the pictures?

 

Thanks in advance

 

PixelDust

[Michelle Young]

My guess is Royal Pioneer Corps and the photos are definitely not WW1

 

Michelle 

[PixelDust]

Ahhh, I know he served in both wars, so that makes sense. Thank you for clearing that up for me. I am so new to this that I had no idea! Cheers.

[FROGSMILE]

As Michelle has spotted both photos show a Pioneer Corps officer (Lieutenant) of WW2 (became Royal after that war).  He is a WW1 veteran, as a great many of the pioneers were, especially at the beginning of WW2.  Most famously the initially poorly armed pioneers managed to obtain arms and played a significant part in the ring of defence around Dunkirk in 1940.

Edited 26 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[PixelDust]

Thank you Frogsmile. As a family we didn't know about the Pioneer Corps at all, seems like most of our info is WW1 and the only pics from WW2. Gives me a great starting point to do more reasearch. Massively appreciated.

 

On a quick scan I saw the Pioneer Corps recruiting in africa. And one snippet of family history was that at one point he wet from Africa to Italy - desert to mountains in short trousers and no warm clothing. Seems like the arms weren't the only thing in short supply.

Edited 26 January , 2019 by PixelDust

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, PixelDust said:

Thank you Frogsmile. As a family we didn't know about the Pioneer Corps at all, seems like most of our info is WW1 and the only pics from WW2. Gives me a great starting point to do more reasearch. Massively appreciated.

 

On a quick scan I saw the Pioneer Corps recruiting in africa. And one snippet of family history was that at one point he wet from Africa to Italy - desert to mountains in short trousers and no warm clothing. Seems like the arms weren't the only thing in short supply.

 

The pioneers are much misunderstood by many.  They were vital along lines of communication and fulfilled a variety of roles.  They had forebears in WW1 called the Labour Corps and there were also pioneer battalions wearing infantry cap badges in each Division.  In WW2 those two functions were effectively merged and embodied within the Pioneer Corps.  As well as British soldiers just about every country within the empire that could provide native labour formed companies of the Pioneer Corps.  They served in all theatres of operation.  The corps has always ended up being disbanded sooner or later after a war, only to be reformed for the next one.  

Edited 26 January , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[PixelDust]

Very interesting, I found some pictures of bridge and pontoon building. Seems like crucial work to me. Your input is ver much appreciated. Thank you.

[clk]

Hi PixelDust,

 

As he served in WW2, the MoD should still have what remains of his weeded service file. Do any of the DoBs shown match?

 

 

Regards

Chris

[FROGSMILE]

19 minutes ago, PixelDust said:

Very interesting, I found some pictures of bridge and pontoon building. Seems like crucial work to me. Your input is ver much appreciated. Thank you.

 

Yes, they were a provider of semi-skilled labour to the Royal Engineers for any task that required a larger work force.  In simple terms the RE provided the brains and the Pioneer Corps the muscle.

[PixelDust]

He's the top one. Thank you so very much.

[clk]

Hi PixelDust,

 

He has some WW1 and immediate post WW1 service papers under his 2140 and 122164 numbers on Findmypast here and here. There are quite a few of the pages that appear in both record sets. The papers should also be on Ancestry. In WW1, his British War Medal and Victory Medal  medal roll record indicates that he served overseas with the 1/7th Battalion; the 2/8th Battalion; and the 2/7th Battalion. Hopefully, from his service record you can establish the dates of when he was abroad with each of those units, then cross reference to their war diaries (National Archives search page link here) to give you a flavour of the events that he was likely involved in, and the places he went. The Brigade HQ diary, and Division HQ (General Staff) diary would give you more context, as they often contain 'extras' that aren't in the Battalion diary, though none are likely to mention Joseph by name. There is a broad structure of the Regiment on the Long Long Trail - see here.

 

43 minutes ago, PixelDust said:

He's the top one

 

That's good. The 'P' prefix to the admin number is indicative of an officer file. If you wanted to take a gamble, you should be able to get a copy of what's left of the file (£30) - see here. Contrary to the general advice shown, I understand that as Joseph was born over 110 years ago, the MoD wouldn't require a copy death certificate with any application. If needed, there is a helpdesk phone number here.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards

Chris

[PixelDust]

Ahhh, I got some through ancestry but I couldn't see the pre 1914 records there. Is there a way I can access them via a single payment? I'm happier paying for things as they come up than having multiple subscriptions.

 

You have been most helpful and I appreciate it.

 

cheers

 

Pixie