MIC - order of regiments significance

[iristaylor]

With previous help from members, I am slowly piecing together the service my gfather, without his record.  The first regiment on the  MIC is ASC no.28723, the second is Corps of Lancers L/16824.  The only change in ink is to Robert's full name and the details of the Victory medal.  It looks like the 15 star details were written at the same time as the regiments and entry into theatre.  When were the cards filled in?  Obviously in this case after 15 July 1915, or have it got this completely wrong!

 

Medical records show Bob was ill and brought home in April 1917 and by August 1918 was in the 490th Co. ASC (from Absent Voters List 1918).  The medical record indicates that he joined in January 1915.  Trying to work out when he would have been in the Lancers - before Aug 1918 and probably before April 1917.

 

Any thoughts on this theory gratefully accepted.

 

Iris

[ss002d6252]

 

Looking at other men it seems he may have been part of a bulk transfer;
 

L/16834 seems to date from July 18 when T/277475 was transferred from the ASC to 1st reserve cavalry regiment.

L/16898 seems to date from July 18 when T/378545 was transferred from the ASC to 1st reserve cavalry regiment.

I suspect that the mention of the ASC on the AVL could just be a case of the family providing the old unit.

 

Craig

Edited 18 January , 2019 by ss002d6252

[iristaylor]

Thank you for this swift reply Craig.  Does it help anything that he is on the Medal Roll under Corps of Lancers  being last regiment served with.  This lists ASC under "On date of disembarkation" i.e. 17 July 1915 to France.  This roll is for the 1915 star.  Under "Remarks" it lists his Lancers number.

 

I take from this that he enlisted with ASC, went to France with them and received the 15 star for this and he was in the Lancers when he demobed on 1 April 1919.  

 

I hadn't realised the family would have filled in his AVL as I thought the soldiers did it themselves in France?  

 

The bulk transfer idea could be the answer!

 

Iris

Craig could you just elaborate on the T/ numbers in your previous answer?  What do they relate to?

 

Many thanks, Iris

[ss002d6252]

Quote

Craig could you just elaborate on the T/ numbers in your previous answer?  What do they relate to?

T numbers were often used to identify Territorial men(use of the prefix was hit and miss).

Quote

I hadn't realised the family would have filled in his AVL as I thought the soldiers did it themselves in France?  

 

They may in some cases but many are far too mangled and wrong to have been supplied by the soldier themselves.

 

Craig

Edited 18 January , 2019 by ss002d6252

[Chris_Baker]

Regulations for the compilation of the Absent Voters Lists were first issued under Army Council Instruction 540 of 26 May 1918. It lays down the procedure for obtaining the men's details (not his vote) and in all cases regardless of his location it involved the man, his commanding officer, a registration officer and an officer in charge of records. The information did not come from home.

 

Edited 19 January , 2019 by Chris_Baker

[Ron Clifton]

T prefixes to regimental numbers in the ASC denoted men in the Horse Transport branch, not Territorials.

 

Ron

[iristaylor]

Thank you all.  

5 hours ago, Chris_Baker said:

Regulations for the compilation of the Absent Voters Lists were first issued under Army Council Instruction 540 of 26 May 1918. It lays down the procedure for obtaining the men's details (not his vote) and in all cases regardless of his location it involved the man, his commanding officer, a registration officer and an officer in charge of records. The information did not come from home.

 

Thank you Chris for this clarification.  This does confuse things though as Autumn 1918  AVL clearly shows ASC 490th but Medal Roll shows "last regiment" as Corps of Lancers with demob in April 1919.  I don't think he could have been in both? It looks like he may have transferred to the Lancers right at the end of the War?  Such a shame I don't know which regiment of Lancers!!  AVL for spring 1919 does not show him unfortunately.

5 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

T prefixes to regimental numbers in the ASC denoted men in the Horse Transport branch, not Territorials.

 

Ron

Thank you Ron - i know he was part of T3 horse transport in the ASC.  He was a Horseman on farms before the War and could also ride.  

[Terry_Reeves]

Re AVL's. This is from a post I made in February 2016:

 

The AVLs for the 1918 election were produced by civilian registration officers from details supplied by households at home. Once these lists had been compiled, the names of those in the forces were sent to the relevant authorities, so that they could make arrangements for voting cards to be sent to the men in question in the UK (about 1 million) and ballot papers sent to men serving on the Western Front and in Italy (some 2 million papers). Special postcards (AFW 3940) were distributed to soldiers serving in France, Belgium and Italy on which they could state their qualifying address and send it directly to the Registration Officer of the constituency in which they were entitled to vote.

Men serving in "distant theatres" were allowed to vote by proxy. In this case, this was done by special proxy voting form, AFW 5014, and sent to these theatres by the War Office. In the case of the Army, these tasks were coordinated by the Adjutant General's Department and the work actually undertaken by the unit records offices. 

Each record office was provided with two copies of the AVL and the officer in charge of the respective offices took steps to revise the lists and to correct the numerous errors they contained. The Directorate of Organisation noted that "owing to the hurried way these lists were prepared (by the civilian registration officers) a very large percentage of entries were incorrect and in many cases soldiers could not be identified at all." Amongst the problems were movement of units, casualties and transfer of men from one unit to another, which could of course include regimental number changes.

Out of interest, the total number of people allowed to vote at the 1918 General Election rose from just over 7 million at the previous election, to around 21 million.
 

[iristaylor]

Many thanks Terry.  I think it is very likely that the family filled in the form as there are 2 entries for Bob!  I think they got in a muddle with his regimental number!  This does make it likely that he joined the RRC after August 1918.

[iristaylor]

Looking at the Medal Rolls - is it possible that soldiers stayed in the 1st Reserve Regiment of Cavalry and never were assigned to a Lancers Regiment?  Especially towards the end of the WAr?