M60 Posted 18 January , 2019 Share Posted 18 January , 2019 I bought this helmet not to long ago and when I was examining it I found something I didn’t see before. The helmet is obviously repainted but there seems to be some type of wwii liner in the helmet? The liner itself seems like it was in there for a very long time. The thing that threw me off is that there is two chinstrap holders. If anyone could help me identify what kind of liner is in this helmet and why there is two chinstrap holders that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools mckenna Posted 18 January , 2019 Share Posted 18 January , 2019 M16 transitional is my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1418 Posted 18 January , 2019 Share Posted 18 January , 2019 Hi it’s later than a 16 dates as it has bales for attaching the chin strap. The early models had a tear drop shaped lug for attaching the old style chin strap used on the pickelhaub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 18 January , 2019 Share Posted 18 January , 2019 (edited) Your helmet appears to be a M1918 Stalhelm with a WW2 liner fitted. As noted above, the original chinstrap design utilised on the 1916 and 1917 type liners was simply the standard picklelhaube type, which worked ok in a mostly decorative role there but not so much functionally on a steel helmet! In 1918 a much better design of chinstrap attached using loops riveted higher up into the body of the helmet by the liner band was adopted (see below). On your helmet the loop on the right side of the photograph is the original from 1918, the left is fitted to the later replacement liner that has been added. Edited 18 January , 2019 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aef1917 Posted 18 January , 2019 Share Posted 18 January , 2019 It's a WWI Austrian helmet with a WWII German liner. Not an uncommon combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 18 January , 2019 Share Posted 18 January , 2019 1 hour ago, aef1917 said: It's a WWI Austrian helmet with a WWII German liner. Not an uncommon combination. What is the giveaway that this is an Austrian, rather than a German, helmet? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 18 January , 2019 Share Posted 18 January , 2019 JMB, The German M16 helmets, and so-called M17 which was merely an alteration to the M16 in that the leather liner band was replaced with a steel one, had a chinstrap attachment "lug" that was attached to the helmet shell. The German M18 chinstrap attachment loop (or bale as some call it) was attached to the steel liner band and not to the helmet shell. Thus, looking at the exterior of the helmet, you can instantly identify an M18 in that there is no rounded chinstrap attachment rivet head to the exterior of the shell. The Austrian helmet has a chinstrap loop (or bale) that is attached by a rivet through the helmet shell but in a considerably higher position than the German M16/17. Thus again it is possible, from looking at the exterior of the helmet, to identify easily whether the helmet is German or Austrian. Some confusion may arise in that the Germans supplied their Austrian Allies with helmet shells, some without chinstrap attachments. One may encounter German manufactured shells that are actually Austrian helmets with either low of high chinstrap attachment points and systems for attachment but perhaps we had better not go there? There is also the Hungarian helmet to consider...... I attach a couple of photos illustrating the German M16/17, the German M18 and the Austrian helmet. I hope I haven't confused you?? Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 18 January , 2019 Share Posted 18 January , 2019 Michael, So...the two rivet heads at approximately the level of the ventilation lugs = Austrian helmet. Many thanks for the explanations. Another thought, that this Austrian example appears to have a roughened paint surface akin to that of the later British helmets that were sanded to reduce reflections. Is that the case? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M60 Posted 19 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2019 On 18/01/2019 at 15:25, Michael Haselgrove said: JMB, The German M16 helmets, and so-called M17 which was merely an alteration to the M16 in that the leather liner band was replaced with a steel one, had a chinstrap attachment "lug" that was attached to the helmet shell. The German M18 chinstrap attachment loop (or bale as some call it) was attached to the steel liner band and not to the helmet shell. Thus, looking at the exterior of the helmet, you can instantly identify an M18 in that there is no rounded chinstrap attachment rivet head to the exterior of the shell. The Austrian helmet has a chinstrap loop (or bale) that is attached by a rivet through the helmet shell but in a considerably higher position than the German M16/17. Thus again it is possible, from looking at the exterior of the helmet, to identify easily whether the helmet is German or Austrian. Some confusion may arise in that the Germans supplied their Austrian Allies with helmet shells, some without chinstrap attachments. One may encounter German manufactured shells that are actually Austrian helmets with either low of high chinstrap attachment points and systems for attachment but perhaps we had better not go there? There is also the Hungarian helmet to consider...... I attach a couple of photos illustrating the German M16/17, the German M18 and the Austrian helmet. I hope I haven't confused you?? Regards, Michael. On 18/01/2019 at 10:22, JMB1943 said: What is the giveaway that this is an Austrian, rather than a German, helmet? Regards, JMB On 18/01/2019 at 08:47, aef1917 said: It's a WWI Austrian helmet with a WWII German liner. Not an uncommon combination. On 18/01/2019 at 07:48, Andrew Upton said: Your helmet appears to be a M1918 Stalhelm with a WW2 liner fitted. As noted above, the original chinstrap design utilised on the 1916 and 1917 type liners was simply the standard picklelhaube type, which worked ok in a mostly decorative role there but not so much functionally on a steel helmet! In 1918 a much better design of chinstrap attached using loops riveted higher up into the body of the helmet by the liner band was adopted (see below). On your helmet the loop on the right side of the photograph is the original from 1918, the left is fitted to the later replacement liner that has been added. On 18/01/2019 at 05:37, Dave1418 said: Hi it’s later than a 16 dates as it has bales for attaching the chin strap. The early models had a tear drop shaped lug for attaching the old style chin strap used on the pickelhaub On 18/01/2019 at 02:16, Jools mckenna said: M16 transitional is my guess. Thank you all for responding, I always love asking questions on here since they always get answered and then some. I genuinely appreciate it. Sorry I didn’t respond earlier I think my notifications are turned off. I can add more pictures if anyone needs it. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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