Guest guthroth Posted 21 January , 2005 Share Posted 21 January , 2005 Hi My request for information about the RN Division in Belgium in 1914 having been answered in a most informative fashion, I'd like to start a new thread which was touched on in replies to my original post. Michael D.R said : Regarding the Admiralty’s armoured trains; there were three of them HMAT Churchill HMAT Deguise HMAT Jellico You are correct about the 4.7 inch guns, see photograph below taken near Ostend Can anyone tell me more about these trains ? Where and when did they see service ? How many and what type of guns were carried ? What actions were they involved in ? What was their eventual fate ? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrewdouglas Posted 22 January , 2005 Share Posted 22 January , 2005 Pete, A quick resume of the R.N. Armoured Trains is that having covered the withdrawal of the RND from Antwerp they supported the French. Belgium and the BEF at Ypres Givenchy, La Bassee,Neuve Chapelle and during the Yser battle of 1915. There is a little known report by Commander A. Scott Littlejohns R.N. found in Air1/2099/207/21.The trains were strangely under the command of the R.N.A.S. This report covers the period Sept.1914 to March 1915 and includes rolls and reccommendations for awards. The movements of the 3 trains Jellicoe,Churchill and Deguise Lieuts Robinson ,Ridler and Captain Servais respectively are fully covered and also the commisioning of H.M.A.T's Sinclair and Souter which were trains fitted with wireless sets .The aspects of observation of shooting is also covered. An interesting account of Lieut. Robinson of H.M.A.T.Jellicoe 'Naval Guns in Flanders 1914-15 can be purchased from The Naval&Military Press. Hope this is of interest Best Wishes Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 23 January , 2005 Share Posted 23 January , 2005 This is an interesting topic about which I too would like to know more; Thanks for the tip about on the book Andrew I take that it Captain Servais was a Belgian and in command of the ‘Deguise’ which was named for the Belgian general. I also note that while the ‘Churchill’ and the ‘Jellicoe’ have respectively 40 and 30 men on the 1914 Star roll as reproduced by Fevyer & Wilson, the Deguise has only 7. With that small number of UK men and the Belgian commander I wonder if it may be the joint Belgian/British train pictured below. This photograph is taken from the web site “The Great War in a Different Light” see http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/index.htm#8 which is a treasure trove of contemporary illustrated articles and thoroughly to be recommended Two more photographs of armoured trains, also from the above site, follow Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 23 January , 2005 Share Posted 23 January , 2005 HMAT [?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 23 January , 2005 Share Posted 23 January , 2005 HMAT [?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrewdouglas Posted 23 January , 2005 Share Posted 23 January , 2005 Many thanks Michael for including the photographs.I have seen these and it is a fairley safe bet that the Anglo-Belgium train shown is the 'Deguise' as the uniforms match those of the Belgium forces.I have been searching for many years for a photo of the British gunners on the Deguise without success.but with so few aboard it is hardly surprising. Captain Servais was a member of the Belgium Horse Artillery and attached to Littlejohns staff.There was a great degree of cooperation between British and Belgium forces to mount the guns and it was the efforts of a Captaine-Commandant E.Lefebvre that really made the operation work by producing the rolling stock and engineering know how to mount so many 4.5 inch guns. If you would like me to download a copy of Littlejohns report please let me know but please be patient as I am only a fledgling at the internet and I have not forgotten that I promised some other items (Nelson Bttn items etc). My interest in the trains is that I have the medals to C.P.O. later commissioned whilst serving on the Deguise Edward Ball.In the mid 1980's I was going to do a combined article with Captain Douglas-Morris but his committment to the R.N.Musuem meant numerous postponements and we never managed to complete the project.T he lack of photographs that identified the individual trains was one of the main problems.If anybody can help please get in touch. I agree - a most interesting topic so thanks to Pete for bringing it up. Best Wishes Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guthroth Posted 26 January , 2005 Share Posted 26 January , 2005 Hi Further research has uncovered this page : http://home.tiscali.be/debyser/trein.htm Now, I don't read enough Flemish to find a car park, but using the Dutch settings on altavista babelfish http://world.altavista.com/tr provides enough information to be very useful. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrewdouglas Posted 27 January , 2005 Share Posted 27 January , 2005 Pete Great bit of work. I can't read Flemish either and don't seem to be able to translate the text using altavista.=very frustrating! Is it possible you could post your translation as an attachment? Hope you've seen my reply on your Royal Marines 1914 thread. Best Wishes Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guthroth Posted 27 January , 2005 Share Posted 27 January , 2005 Hi Yes I found the other thread using the search feature, and I'm trying to compile all the information into a more easily accessable article. I have attached the translation from Babel fish. Bear in mind that Dutch and Flemish are quite closely related to English, and if a word looks strange, try saying the word as spelt and then think about it. Example "Exactly zoasl someone on a war ship." zoasl = so as The same applies to grammar and sentance construction. As I said it needs a bit of time to read but is worth the effore. OURS_ARMOURED_GO_BY_TRAIN_IN_1914.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 28 January , 2005 Share Posted 28 January , 2005 If you would like me to download a copy of Littlejohns report please let me know but please be patient as I am only a fledgling In your own good time & whenever you’re ready Andrew Just don’t ask me for any tips on how it’s done Compu-illiterate Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guthroth Posted 28 January , 2005 Share Posted 28 January , 2005 Micheal, I have the files, but Andrew sent them as 13 VERY large files attached to one email (25mb). My home email accepted them but works email alomst blew up in the attempt. If you contact me off board, I will email them as 13 single files, but they are still over 1mb each. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 30 January , 2005 Share Posted 30 January , 2005 Many thanks to both Pete and Andrew for their generous assistance PMs have been sent Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 My thanks to our generous Pals, Andrew and Pete Who’s combined efforts to overcome my technical inadequacies Resulting in a CD from Pete arriving here by airmail yesterday And a thoroughly enjoyable read for me this morning. Well done and thanks again for fulfilling what I believe are the best traditions of The Great War Forum I shall try to reflect the generosity shown already to me, by offering to pass on Pete’s CD containing the Report of Act/Commander A. Scott-Littlejohns RN to the first Pal interested in the Admiralty’s armoured trains who sends me a PM with his postal address details Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guthroth Posted 5 February , 2005 Share Posted 5 February , 2005 Pleasure to help. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 16 March , 2005 Share Posted 16 March , 2005 My thanks to Dan [LtColSki USMC0302] who has not only kindly returned the original disc, but has also thoughtfully added a clone of it Any other forum members wishing to read the Littlejohns Report on Armoured Trains should send me a PM with their postal address details and it will be no trouble to get one of these discs off to them Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn311 Posted 23 March , 2005 Share Posted 23 March , 2005 Many thanks to Michael: the disk arrived yesterday in Belgium . I managed to downsize the images (13 scanned pages) to a single 4,5 Mb pdf-file (covering Antwerp, 1st Ypres and Neuve-Chapelle). If anyone is interested (and has sufficient capacity in his mailbox), sent my your email-adres. If not, PM me you postal adress, and I will continue the mail chain. bert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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