SteveE Posted 20 December , 2018 Share Posted 20 December , 2018 5 hours ago, MaxD said: There is something not quite right about "L Corps 11 Corps" quoted previously. The Corps were all numbered in latin numerals so L would be 50 but there wasn't a 50 Corps and 11 would have been XI. According to the Royal Engineers Museum Library and Archives War Diary list “L.” Corps was originally XI Corps so that’s where the L Corps 11 Corps came from in the original post. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 Hi Steve, Yes, 'L' Corps is 11 (or XI) Corps. I also found the paperwork earlier but posted it on the other Arthur Williams thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 7 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Hi Steve, Yes, 'L' Corps is 11 (or XI) Corps. I also found the paperwork earlier but posted it on the other Arthur Williams thread Hi Dai, good call and glad we came to the same conclusion. I was concerned about duplicating effort and then I go and do it 😀 but at least Neil has a bit more added to the overall picture. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 Thanks from me too for the clarification. Max PS New Year's resolutions 1. Never contribute to a duplicate thread, that way madness lies! 2. Make more use of LLT where answers abound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 10 minutes ago, MaxD said: Thanks from me too for the clarification From my experience of war diaries, I've found that the ASC for some reason are pretty consistent in their use of these letter abbreviations, and seem to use them more than other units of the British Army. Particularly with their reference to Corps Siege Parks, which are more often than not referred to as "S" or "G" or "E" (and so on) Siege Park. But that can sometimes be confusing , especially at times of unit relocation, as they sometimes use the term for the staff, rather than the location Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 21 December , 2018 Admin Share Posted 21 December , 2018 Topics merged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 Just now, Michelle Young said: Topics merged. Thanks Michelle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 An incomplete war diary for 11 Corps Signal Company is at: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/65765262331b495aab5b93e1f372fdca The OP may wish to invest £3.50 as this may well mention the airline detachment. Max PS Thanks Michelle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil williams Posted 21 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 December , 2018 Thanks to Steve and Dai Bach On his MSM index card you say the "L" is not the corps but his middle name but he did not have a middle name only ARTHUR but on the Gazette he is listed as "L" .:so am thinking it must be corps signal coy Unless you think otherwise Would anybody know about the 101 motor airline section and what it might cover-was it always motorised or other form of transport used Hope you can help Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 14 minutes ago, neil williams said: Thanks to Steve and Dai Bach On his MSM index card you say the "L" is not the corps but his middle name but he did not have a middle name only ARTHUR but on the Gazette he is listed as "L" .:so am thinking it must be corps signal coy. Neil The entry in the London Gazette is incorrect. As it is shown in the Gazette the positioning of the "L" and the punctuation suggests it as being his middle initial and the unit as "Corps Signal Coy." which is clearly not the case. The MSM Index Card shows the correct unit description as "L. Corps Signal Coy." so that is what the Gazette promulgation should have read. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 1 hour ago, neil williams said: Gazette he is listed as "L" .:so am thinking it must be corps You are correct Neil. As I have explained above, sometimes Eleven Corps was written as 11 Corps, or 11th Corps, or XI corps, and sometimes the letter 'L' was used as its abbreviation so it was written a 'L' Corps! The 'L' is his Corps, and is not part of his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 (edited) You might like to check the war diary as I suggested earlier and which you appear to have overlooked. The airline section was part of the Sigs company. MaxD Edited 21 December , 2018 by MaxD wording Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil williams Posted 21 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 December , 2018 thanks Max did order war diaries w/o 890 many pages but could not find reference to signals co and airline section is there somewhere else to look? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 Neil The link I posted should have brought you to the page at the National Archives which has: WO - Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies Division within WO - Records of the Armed Forces from commands, headquarters, regiments and corps WO 95 - War Office: First World War and Army of Occupation War Diaries Subseries within WO 95 - PART I: FRANCE, BELGIUM AND GERMANY Subsubseries within WO 95 - 11 CORPS WO 95/890 - Corps Troops This record (browse from here by hierarchy or by reference) Catalogue descriptionCorps Troops: Corps Signal Company. Note Diaries for Dec 1917-Feb 1918 not included Ordering and viewing options £3.50 Download size approximately 14.5 MB. Download format PDF Add to basket More ways to view this record Reference: WO 95/890/6 Description: Corps Troops: Corps Signal Company. Note Diaries for Dec 1917-Feb 1918 not included Etc, Is this the one you have downloaded? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil williams Posted 22 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 December , 2018 Max-yes Should i request the signal corps Dec 1917-Feb 1918 as cannot see this on the war diary as WO 95/890/6 Neil Or will i have received this already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 22 December , 2018 Share Posted 22 December , 2018 (edited) If you have downloaded WO 95/890/6 you have the only diary that exists for 11 Corps Signals Company Royal Engineers (of which the airline section was a small part) for Sep 1915 to Dec 1918. The two months Dec 17 and Jan 18 are missing - often happens, they aren't anywhere else. As your man was awarded the MSM after war's end, if he is going to be mentioned anywhere then it would be in the latter part of that diary(although mentions of individual soldiers are rare). At the very least it will enable you to get a flavour of what a Sigs Coy was doing and where. Note that according to his MSM card, the airline section he was in was numbered 101. One of the men highlighted by Steve earlier was in 27 Airline Section and transferred in March 1918 to 101 Section which was also in L Corps Sig Coy so you should look out in the diary for mention of either section. Don't be surprised if you find nothing about them, they were just small sections contributing to the main effort of the company and may not be mentioned specifically. Max Edited 22 December , 2018 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil williams Posted 30 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2018 On 09/12/2018 at 15:58, keithmroberts said: Sorry to intrude, but this clip from The Long Long Trail website, which is well worth exploring in itself, answers your question Neil. This was a newly formed battalion, so initially it would be in camp in the UK, training until the powers that be deemed it ready for overseas service. Battalions of the Territorial Force 1/5th Battalion August 1914 : in York. Part of West Riding Brigade, West Riding Division. Moved on 10 August to Selby, end of the month to Strenshall and late October to York. In March 1915 moved to Gainsborough. 15 April 1915 : landed at Boulogne. 15 May 1915 : formation became 146th Brigade, 49th (West Riding) Division. Keith Keith Could you possibly let me know which port Arthur Williams departed from prior to landing at Boulogne -however i believe it was Folkestone when he departed to land 3sept 1915 at Boulogne Can you help? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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