Claire R Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 I'm researching William Eastwood HARRIS, a Lieut in the Northumberland Fusiliers, who enrolled while at Pembroke College, Cambridge. I see from his marriage certificate was he was Private No. 4108 Inns of Court, O.T. Corps in June 1915. I can't find his service records and understand that I need to know his battalion number in order to track his unit's (?) movements via war diaries. How do I find out which battalion he was in? His medal index card says, next to the Victory medal, OFF/112 page 48D. I've accessed Forces War Records and see that he was injured twice. I'd like to know more about this. He died in 1921 aged 31. I'd be grateful for any advice. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbem Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 (edited) Hi Claire and welcome to the forum. You can hunt through the Army Lists on National Library of Scotland files and look through the Gazette records - this one may be good The Northumberland Fusiliers. The undermentioned to be Second Lieutenants and seconded for duty with a Provisional Battalion. Dated 17th September, 1915: — Private William Eastwood Harris, from the Inns of Court Officers Training Corps. regards Jon Edited 3 December , 2018 by jonbem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire R Posted 3 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Thanks Jonbem. I think I posted prematurely! I've found out via Forces War Records that he served with the 7th Battalion so will pursue that now. I really appreciate your speedy reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 His service record along with other Officers should be held at the National Archives, they've not been digitised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire R Posted 3 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2018 I'm a bit confused by that roughdiamond. I thought all the service records that still existed (i.e. not burnt records) were on Ancestry. Is that not the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 No, most Officers records as I say are at the National Archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 (edited) I took a look in WO339 and WO374 and didn't see one for this Officer. He has an entry in WO338 Index (Section WO338/9/10 covers HARRIS) and there is an entry for a William Eastwood HARRIS but he is shown as Army Service Corps there. A reference is also listed 9/5/4267 which I have not seen before and have no idea what it means, there is ordinarily a ref which leads to the file number, or if it has gone beyond 1922, and thus not in the public domain, there is a "P" prefix, which there isn't here. Edited 3 December , 2018 by sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Hi Claire, From this free download, it would appear that at one time he was which I think probably reads as Royal Army Service Corps 5th Regiment of Foot [the archaic name still used in some records of the time for the Northumberland Fusiliers] in one of their Territorial Force battalions, but attached to the Royal Army Service Corps. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire R Posted 3 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Thank you Sotonmate and Cllk for your help. It's so kind of you. That's interesting that he was probably initially in the Royal Army Service Corps then (is that right?!) Would he then have transferred over to the 5th Regiment of Foot aka Northumberland Fusiliers? Why did people move from one regiment to another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 23 minutes ago, clk said: which I think probably reads as Royal Army Service Corps 5th Regiment of Foot [the archaic name still used in some records of the time for the Northumberland Fusiliers] in one of their Territorial Force battalions, but attached to the Royal Army Service Corps. RASC 5 (TF) att. RASC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire R Posted 3 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2018 What does that mean Major General? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Need to insert 'th and Northumberland Fusiliers' into the equation I think, so 5th NF (TF) att RASC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Hi Claire, Welcome to the Forum. The entry for WEH in the Inns of Court OTC book is as follows: Harris, William Eastwood; I/4/4108, 7/6/15; North'd Fus. 17/9/15; employed M.of Munitions; F; Capt.; W(2) 50, Springfield Rd., St John's Wood, N.W. War List of Cambridge University 1914-18, under Pembroke College: Harris, W. E., Lieut. Northumberland Fusiliers (T.F.) (w 2) 1909. Although I have a copy of the 'War History of the Seventh Northumberland Fusiliers' there is no index for names and so it would be a matter of trawling through the book to see if he receives a mention--I will have a look and see what I can find. Hope this helps, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Hi Claire, 2 hours ago, Claire R said: I thought all the service records that still existed (i.e. not burnt records) were on Ancestry. Is that not the case? Officer files were held away from the repository that was effected by the WW2 bombing/fire, and would now usually be held either by the National Archives, or (if they had service past the early 1920s) by the MoD. Ancestry/Findmypast don't have those files, and unfortunately they aren't available for download from the National Archives/MoD. Like sotonmate intimated, I too am having difficulty tracking it down. 8 minutes ago, Claire R said: That's interesting that he was probably initially in the Royal Army Service Corps then (is that right?!) Would he then have transferred over to the 5th Regiment of Foot aka Northumberland Fusiliers? Not quite. What it's intimating is that he was originally commissioned to the Northumberland Fusiliers, and whilst he officially remained on their books, he was 'lent out' (so to speak) to the Army Service Corps - possibly because he had a skill set for which they had an overriding need - speculation on my part though. 2 hours ago, Claire R said: I've found out via Forces War Records that he served with the 7th Battalion I don't currently have access to FWRs, but would be interested to know what the record/s are/say. Linking back to the record which suggests that he was a TF man, the 7/Northumberland Fusiliers were a TF unit - link. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire R Posted 3 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Wow, you lot are amazing! Thank you! Old Owl/Major general - I have located the diaries of the Northumberland Fusiliers online up until Feb 1918 and HARRIS is mentioned as being wounded in April 1917 which accounts for one of his two wounding episodes. The website says that the diairies from then till the end of the war haven't yet been transcribed for the net yet so I'll have to find another way of accessing them. Cllk /Chris. Thank you for interpreting the 'loan' for me. And that's very interesting about the officer records - that info was new to me. I'm actually researching this chap for a friend whose great grandfather WEH is. Unfortunately most of my great grandfathers were lowly squaddies so I'm finding it more difficult to get hold of info for them. I might get you guys into it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Claire R said: Wow, you lot are amazing! Thank you! Old Owl/Major general - I have located the diaries of the Northumberland Fusiliers online up until Feb 1918 and HARRIS is mentioned as being wounded in April 1917 which accounts for one of his two wounding episodes. The website says that the diairies from then till the end of the war haven't yet been transcribed for the net yet so I'll have to find another way of accessing them. Cllk /Chris. Thank you for interpreting the 'loan' for me. And that's very interesting about the officer records - that info was new to me. I'm actually researching this chap for a friend whose great grandfather WEH is. Unfortunately most of my great grandfathers were lowly squaddies so I'm finding it more difficult to get hold of info for them. I might get you guys into it! You are most welcome. I have now had a quick look through the history and unfortunately only fatal casualties to officers receive a mention in the text, so the war diary it seems will be your best option for such information. Good luck. I was a little confused regarding the note on his MIC which says 'deceased' as he quite clearly survived the war--however it seems that he did die in October,1921, but whether or not this was as a result of the wounds he received is hard to say. Although his wounds presumably must have been the reason for him being given a desk job with the Ministry of Munitions. Unfortunately the service papers of many Territorial Army officers were either 'weeded' and returned to their appropriate T.A. unit, or more likely simply destroyed by the National Archives many years ago. Hence it is a matter of luck if they will have survived intact. Robert Edited 3 December , 2018 by Old Owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 couple of London Gazette entry's 16th Sept 1915 20th Jan 1922 Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 17 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: Need to insert 'th and Northumberland Fusiliers' into the equation I think, so 5th NF (TF) att RASC I might well be wrong, but I'm slightly at odds with Jay on that interpretation. In those records the battalion is usually indicated by a number 'X/' followed by the Regiment of Foot number. where 'X' equals the battalion number. For example, from the download, a couple of entries above your man, it shows a man as '3/32' - so 3rd Battalion, 32nd Regiment of Foot (old fashioned term). If the 'X/' number is not shown, as in your case, I don't think that you determine the battalion, just the regiment. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Post 2 above mentioned the Army Lists on the National Library of Scotland website. Specifically I would expect that he would appear in the Monthly Army Lists (as the other Lists are for career soldiers) and would be looking in the Monthly Lists. The Lists are searchable and browsable. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 4 December , 2018 Share Posted 4 December , 2018 10 hours ago, Maureene said: Post 2 above mentioned the Army Lists on the National Library of Scotland website. Specifically I would expect that he would appear in the Monthly Army Lists (as the other Lists are for career soldiers) and would be looking in the Monthly Lists. The Lists are searchable and browsable. Cheers Maureen I am a little confused by this statement. Monthly British Army lists for the WW1 period include details of all commissioned officers whether they be Regular or Territorial. As far as I am aware there are no separate lists published for career soldiers ie Regular officers, or at least I have never seen copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 4 December , 2018 Share Posted 4 December , 2018 10 hours ago, Old Owl said: I am a little confused by this statement. Monthly British Army lists for the WW1 period include details of all commissioned officers whether they be Regular or Territorial. As far as I am aware there are no separate lists published for career soldiers ie Regular officers, or at least I have never seen copies. I agree that the Monthly Lists contain all commissioned officers, and I did not think my statement above implied that regular officers were not included in the Monthly Lists, so I am sorry if my wording was not specific enough. When I said other Lists were for career soldiers I was referring to the Quarterly Lists, and Hart's Army Lists which are also available from the National Library of Scotland website link given in post 2. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 5 December , 2018 Share Posted 5 December , 2018 (edited) Here are some further Gazette entries that give a bit more shape to his service: London Gazette 1-11-1916 Northumberland Fus.— The undermentioned 2nd Lts. (attached to a Prov. Bn.) are restored to the estbt. 6th Oct. 1916 : — L. W. Howard. W. J. Basan. 2nd Lt. W. E. Harris (attached to a Prov. Bn.) is restored to the estbt. 6th Oct. 1916. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29809/supplement/10612 London Gazette 5-11-1917 War Office, 5th November, 1917. TERRITORIAL FORCE. INFANTRY. Northumberland Fus.— ....... The undermentioned Lts. to have pay and allowances of rank. 1st July 1917:— ....... W. E. Harris https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30367/supplement/11447 London Gazette 28-1-1919 MEMORANDA The undermentioned to be temp. Capts.:— Whilst employed as Station Accountant Officers: 2nd Jan. 1919 Lt. W. E. Harris, 7th North'-d Fus., T.F. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31146/supplement/1346/ London Gazette 5-6-1919 The undermentioned temp, appts. are made: — Station Accountant Officers Cl. FF.— And to retain, their temp, rank whilst so empld. : — Lt. (temp. Capt.) W.. E. Harris, 7th North'd Fus., T.F., from 2nd Jan. to 31st Mar. 1919 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31390/page/7283 London Gazette 8-7-1921 7th Bn,, North'd Fus.— Lt. Col. G. Reavell, T.D., resigns his commn., 12th July 1921, and retains the rank of Lt.-Col., with permission to wear the prescribed uniform. Lt. J. K. Fraser resigns his commn., 12th July 1921, and is granted the rank of Capt. The undermentioned Lts, resign their commns., 12th July 1921, and retain the rank of Lt.: — A. E. Home. A. H. Cray. A. N. Faull. S. R. Greenfield. K. K. Teasdale R. S. Mearns. W. E. Harris, R. D. Crawford J. P. Sowerby https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32386/supplement/5548 I think that there are one or two more movements that I can't locate yet. There is also a War Diary entry noting his arrival with 1/7th Battalion on 11th January 1917. https://www.fusilier.co.uk/military/7th_battalion_northumberland_fusiliers_war_diary.html Steve. Edited 5 December , 2018 by Stebie9173 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now