Thomas George Walker Irish Guards

[Maxsparky]

Came across this photograph of Thomas George Walker born 1881 in Tullylish, Co Down on ancestry site.  I assuming this is an Irish Guards uniform, due to four buttons and shamrock on collar.  The date of photo I am not aware of, nor the type of medal worn.   Can the uniform be confirmed and the medal.  Have no other details other than he immigrated to the USA and was recorded in New Jersey census of 1920.  Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Muerrisch]

I believe this to be a very early photograph of an Irish Guards private. The regiment was founded in 1900. His uniform features the old-style collar where the white braid is at the top ..... the design was changed to placing it at the foot of the collar in about 1902 but of course changes were not instantaneous. His headdress is the short lived Guards pattern, similar to but not identical to the Brodrick. He has at least 2 years of service [the chevron]. It is likely that the medal is one of the two Boer War campaign medals. He may well have served in another regiment in South Africa ....... The Irish Guards were initially men from a variety of regiments of course.

All in all  I think the photo might be c. 1904 which seems to fit his apparent age.

An expert will be along shortly.

[FROGSMILE]

I agree with m’learned friend’s assessment apart from his comment regarding the collar pattern, which remained unchanged for the Foot Guards, it was only the line regiment’s tunics that changed in the way that he described.  The date is very likely to be between the end of the Boer War and 1905, so 1904 seems very likely.  It would be interesting to find out which regiment he served in previously.  There is a Boer War website whose proprietor could probably find that out.

Edited 1 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Maxsparky]

6 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I agree with m’learned friend’s assessment apart from his comment regarding the collar pattern, which remained unchanged for the Foot Guards, it was only the line regiment’s tunics that changed in the way that he described.  The date is very likely to be between the end of the Boer War and 1905, so 1904 seems very likely.  It would be interesting to find out which regiment he served in previously.  There is a Boer War website whose proprietor could probably find that out.

Thank you for your comment.  Great photo of the Irish Wolfhound regimental mascot

 

15 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

I believe this to be a very early photograph of an Irish Guards private. The regiment was founded in 1900. His uniform features the old-style collar where the white braid is at the top ..... the design was changed to placing it at the foot of the collar in about 1902 but of course changes were not instantaneous. His headdress is the short lived Guards pattern, similar to but not identical to the Brodrick. He has at least 2 years of service [the chevron]. It is likely that the medal is one of the two Boer War campaign medals. He may well have served in another regiment in South Africa ....... The Irish Guards were initially men from a variety of regiments of course.

All in all  I think the photo might be c. 1904 which seems to fit his apparent age.

An expert will be along shortly.

Thank you for your comments

 

[Muerrisch]

Frogsmile, I was uneasy as I wrote about the collar, and of course you are correct about the braiding. It always strikes me as odd that the Guards should defy the heraldic principle that "colours" should not lie next to "colours", but should be separated by a metal or other non-colour. White counts as a metal. Very odd.

 

I see on further squinting that the soldier's collar is the old style round fronted version. The soldiers with the wolfhound have some of the later square fronts, some of the curved. The RACD ledgers are  rather bitty and incomplete regarding infantry tunics 1901 to 1914 but there was clearly a lot of fiddling around with detail. That, taken with the inevitable "while stocks last" means that a lack of uniformity in tunics often appears in group photos. 1st RWF in 1911 show a lot of old tunics among new.

[Maxsparky]

Have found a record which may refer to this man as birth and age appear the same. 

Discharge from Royal Chelsea Hospital - Thomas George Walker, Discharge Age 22, Birth Date abt 1881, Discharge Year 1903, Regiment Irish Guards, Regimental Number 1384. 

[FROGSMILE]

The South Africa medal makes clear that this man had prior service in another regiment.  If his birth details can be submitted on the Boer War website:  https://www.angloboerwar.com/name-search

it ought to be possible to look him up on the medal roll.  It looks like the King’s SA Medal ribbon to me.

 

N.B.  Looking at his apparent, long limbed stature he seems to have been quite tall, not something common at that time of relative malnourishment, and it would have appealed to the then new regiment of Foot Guards.

Edited 3 December , 2018 by FROGSMILE