Annie Mitchell, widow: Why did pension payments stop?

[rolt968]

This is the payments column from the pension ledger page for Pte. Charles C Mitchell, RMLI, lost with HMS Monmouth. The payments were made to his widow, Annie. (They had married on 30 September 1913.)

 

The payments end on 4 April 1917. (There is plenty of room further down the column.)

 

Am I right in thinking that the payments stopped?

What were possible reasons for the stopping of the payment?

 

Annie Mitchell is something of a shadowy figure at the moment. The marine's record gives her maiden name as O.Connor, but the pension ledger gives it as Connors.

RM

 

Edited 11 November , 2018 by rolt968

[ss002d6252]

21 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

This is the payments column from the pension ledger page for Pte. Charles C Mitchell, RMLI, lost with HMS Monmouth. The payments were made to his widow, Annie. (They had married on 30 September 1913.)

 

The payments end on 4 April 1917. (There is plenty of room further down the column.)

 

Am I right in thinking that the payments stopped?

What were possible reasons for the stopping of the payment?

 

Annie Mitchell is something of a shadowy figure at the moment. The marine's record gives her maiden name as O.Connor, but the pension ledger gives it as Connors.

RM

 

Can you link to the record ?

 

Craig

[rolt968]

All being well this should be it:

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=Fsw1291&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=westernfrontassociation&gsfn=Charles&gsln=Mitchell&gsfn_x=NP_NN_NIC&gsln_x=NP_NN_NS&cp=0&msddy=1914&new=1&rank=1&redir=false&uidh=1fc&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=1&h=24024&recoff=&ml_rpos=2

RM

[BillyH]

Did she remarry?

 

BillyH.

[rolt968]

4 minutes ago, BillyH said:

Did she remarry?

 

BillyH.

That's one of the possibilities that I am wondering about. I haven't found the marriage so far, am still looking.

RM

[ss002d6252]

I have read through the pension regulations but can't see a clear answer (or a clear answer as to why the rate was set at 10s). I too though that it may have been stopped due to remarriage but if you take a look through other records for men killed in 1914 those register entries also end in April 18 - one record even has a notation that an allowance shouldn't stop until 1923.

 

I have feeling there is something more to it - I have a feeling that there is some administrative reason why the entries ceased.

 

Craig

[rolt968]

20 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

I have read through the pension regulations but can't see a clear answer (or a clear answer as to why the rate was set at 10s). I too though that it may have been stopped due to remarriage but if you take a look through other records for men killed in 1914 those register entries also end in April 18 - one record even has a notation that an allowance shouldn't stop until 1923.

 

I have feeling there is something more to it - I have a feeling that there is some administrative reason why the entries ceased.

 

Craig

 

Thanks Craig,

I wonder if they were transferred to another ledger which hasn't survived. Something may turn up if there are related cards.

 

The pension ledgers seem to contain surprises. I had assumed that I needn't bother looking for single soldiers in the ledgers - only to find that a pension seems to have been given to the grandparents of a single soldier whom they had brought up.

 

RM

Edited 11 November , 2018 by rolt968

[ss002d6252]

17 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

 

Thanks Craig,

I wonder if they were transferred to another ledger which hasn't survived. Something may turn up if there are related cards.

 

The pension ledgers seem to contain surprises. I had assumed that I needn't bother looking for single soldiers in the ledgers - only to find that a pension seems to have been given to the grandparents of a single soldier whom they had brought up.

 

RM

After war gratuities pensions were something I was going to look in to - perhaps now would be as good a time as any...

For now I would also suspect that another register may have existed but perhaps the cards will assist when they appear. In the meantime I may have a dig around tomorrow.

 

Craig

[ss002d6252]

15 hours ago, rolt968 said:

 

Thanks Craig,

I wonder if they were transferred to another ledger which hasn't survived. Something may turn up if there are related cards.

 

The pension ledgers seem to contain surprises. I had assumed that I needn't bother looking for single soldiers in the ledgers - only to find that a pension seems to have been given to the grandparents of a single soldier whom they had brought up.

 

RM

Had some more time to look at this.

 

Clearly something happened in April 1917 that ended the pension payments on this register. I suspect that it ties in with the change from the military administering the records to them being administered by the Ministry of Pensions from Feb 1917 onwards - a lot of the changes seem to have been slowly phased in.

 

It's starting to sound a lot like there are more registers out there somewhere which are either hiding in a corner somewhere or have been destroyed. All of the naval ledgers I can that would have an ongoing pension all ceased in April 1917 in respect of the noting of payments however the records were clearly updated past that date as some have additional comments added in later years.

 

Would I would postulate is that when the Ministry of Pensions took over the admiralty pensions they started a clean set of financial records.

 

One way that could help with this is a very, very, long shot and that is to locate a man who died pre-war and has a pension record - pre-war men were apparently not taken on by the Ministry of Pensions, the Admiralty retained these records and continued paying the pension.

 

Craig

[rolt968]

4 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

Had some more time to look at this.

 

Clearly something happened in April 1917 that ended the pension payments on this register. I suspect that it ties in with the change from the military administering the records to them being administered by the Ministry of Pensions from Feb 1917 onwards - a lot of the changes seem to have been slowly phased in.

 

It's starting to sound a lot like there are more registers out there somewhere which are either hiding in a corner somewhere or have been destroyed. All of the naval ledgers I can that would have an ongoing pension all ceased in April 1917 in respect of the noting of payments however the records were clearly updated past that date as some have additional comments added in later years.

 

Would I would postulate is that when the Ministry of Pensions took over the admiralty pensions they started a clean set of financial records.

 

One way that could help with this is a very, very, long shot and that is to locate a man who died pre-war and has a pension record - pre-war men were apparently not taken on by the Ministry of Pensions, the Admiralty retained these records and continued paying the pension.

 

Craig

Thanks Craig,

That's imteresting. I will keep my eye open for anything useful.

RM

[David Tattersfield]

22 hours ago, rolt968 said:

This is the payments column from the pension ledger page for Pte. Charles C Mitchell, RMLI, lost with HMS Monmouth. The payments were made to his widow, Annie. (They had married on 30 September 1913.)

 

The payments end on 4 April 1917. (There is plenty of room further down the column.)

 

Am I right in thinking that the payments stopped?

 What were possible reasons for the stopping of the payment?

 

Annie Mitchell is something of a shadowy figure at the moment. The marine's record gives her maiden name as O.Connor, but the pension ledger gives it as Connors.

RM

 

 

Since the WFA acquired this archive, 99.9% of my time has been spent on the army cards and ledgers (ie not these naval ones) so the following may not be totally 'gospel'

 

I believe that the Naval Ledgers record only for a certain length of time then the recording stops.

 

This does not necessarily mean the payments stopped, therefore Craig has an excellent point with his hypothesis here:

 

4 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

Would I would postulate is that when the Ministry of Pensions took over the admiralty pensions they started a clean set of financial records.

 

 

[rolt968]

3 hours ago, David Tattersfield said:

 

Since the WFA acquired this archive, 99.9% of my time has been spent on the army cards and ledgers (ie not these naval ones) so the following may not be totally 'gospel'

 

I believe that the Naval Ledgers record only for a certain length of time then the recording stops.

 

This does not necessarily mean the payments stopped, therefore Craig has an excellent point with his hypothesis here:

 

 

Thanks David.