Shrapnel shell case ID please!

[trajan]

Picked this one up at the local 'Antika Pazari' today for the princely sum of TL 50 = £6.50 (woz I robbed?!). Anyway I assume it is a container / case for shapnel, but would welcome help with correct terminology - and an ID pretty please. It is near-enough 7.2 cm diameter at the base, 6.5 cm at the top, and 15 cm high. Nothng inside except cigarette ash(!), and no trace of markings on the base - should there be some there or anywhere else for that matter?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Trajan

[trajan]

Should have added - any advice on cleaning? Bayonets and shell cartridge cases, I can do - but I have not had anything like this before!

 

Trajan

[m0rris]

To my untrained eye it looks a bit like this: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/265910-a-little-help/?tab=comments#comment-2696479

[Torrey McLean]

Hello, Trajan -

 

It appears to be a German shrapnel shell for the 9cm cannon.  Although outdated in 1914, it still was used as a second-line weapon as late as 1916 and possibly later.  It certainly could have been exported to the Turks.

 

Markings on the German 9cm shrapnel shells were on the side and also on the bottom of the shell body.

 

I successfully cleaned the several that I have with electrolysis.  Since yours appears to be in better-than-average condition, electrolysis should reveal markings.

 

It is odd that your shell took rifling on the bottom band but not the top.  Also, the bands appear to be slightly wider than the bands of the German 9cm shrapnel shells that I have found on the Western Front, so perhaps I am wrong...  Perhaps it is a Turkish imitation of the German 9cm shell.

 

Regards, Torrey

[trajan]

Thanks chaps! 

 

I have double-checked for markings but nothing obvious so far - but corrosion products on the other side are worse and can have obscured these. Electrolysis is an idea - but won't that remove the patina?

 

Measured the top band which sure enough shows no rifling marks, and it is 1 cm wide, so I guess pretty certainly continental manufacture? Bottom band is 1.1 cm wide, if that helps.

 

Surprisingly enough, this was not sold to me as a Gallipoli find! An honest trader for once - unlike the one who tried to sell me a standard Prussian belt buckle as an 'SS' one!

 

Julian

 

[MikB]

If it's for the 9 cm  C73, wouldn't the diameter at the driving band be 88 mm rather than 72?

 

I think the upper band may not be engraved because it's of bore rather than groove diameter, and rides on the lands as it travels up the barrel.

[trajan]

I'll check the diameter of the driving band when I can find my calipers! Base diameter is 7.2 cm, approx.

[depaor01]

I spotted that upper driving band immediately. Even if it was slightly smaller than the bore, you'd expect at least shadowy versions of the markings on the lower band.

Dave

[14276265]

Looks like a Turkish made Shrapnel shell for the Skoda 7.5cm Gebirgskanone M15 (75mm mountain gun) used by Austria-Hungary, and supplied to the Ottomans. The attached shows a projectile, although the fuze is questionable - might be a composite of two different Turkish fuzes.

 

 

 

265

[trajan]

Interesting one, 265, as my shell does just fit into the top of a French 75 cartridge trench-art case that I have.

 

Deparo01, I double -checked just now, and no rifling marks at all on what I understand is the" bourrelet", and the join where the band has been wrapped around is clear to see.

 

The only other feature that might be of relevance are two small 0.5 cm wide notches on the lip of the shell, 1.0 cm distant from each other, but I suspct that there are the results of use and / or corrosion.

[MikB]

3 hours ago, depaor01 said:

I spotted that upper driving band immediately. Even if it was slightly smaller than the bore, you'd expect at least shadowy versions of the markings on the lower band.

Dave

 

Yes, that puzzled me a bit too, but 142's pic shows the same unmarked surface.

 

Somewhere there's a pic of a 15" round fired by HMS Queen Elizabeth bombarding Genoa in WW2, and that shows severe and assymetric rifling marks even on the shell body where it seems to have gone up the bore a bit on the skew. Must've done considerable mischief to the rifling as well as to Genoa. It was remembering that pic that made me wonder - same as you - about the absence on the forward band. Of course this round would have operated at much lower pressure and velocity than a top-of-the-range battleship round.

[chaz]

if any consolation, we picked up a shell in worse condition from Point 110 area this year, for fun took to a car boot sale and sold for £10