ianw Posted 16 January , 2005 Share Posted 16 January , 2005 Does anyone have any info of the British Tavern Grand Place Ypres i.e who ran it and when it operated ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 16 January , 2005 Share Posted 16 January , 2005 Ian great picture. Not come across that one. Obviously a wooden building and if truely the GRAND PLACE then a very early one post Armistice. Indeed some rubble and weeds appear in the background indicating most of the rubble had not yet been cleared . Who operated it I dont know. Certainly by the mid 20s work was well underway in renovating and restoring the Place so I would put this quite early 1919/20ish. For obvious reasons Ypres rapidly became a place where a great number of British came to visit and this must be an early attempt to cater for that demand. SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 16 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2005 Yes, I felt the same ,that it had to be early. I suppose that a wooden hutted town must have sprung up to serve the builders, visitors etc. I have not come across pictures of such buildings before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 16 January , 2005 Share Posted 16 January , 2005 Hi Ian have just moved the pic sideways and seen the full extent of the building, its much bigger than I thought probably did bedrooms as well. More interesting is the soldier (? Belgian or Belgium Gendarme) with the rifle and fixed bayonet. That and the general rubble and grass in the foreground dates it even more securely to the very early post armistice period. By the mid 20s a flourishing battlefield touring and pilgrimage business had become established. henry Williamson revisitibg describes bars with nightly jazz there by that time. Probably much more lively thew when I first found it in 1990 when evrything except a few eateries shut at 6!! Now again a much more lively place at night I,m glad to say !! SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 16 January , 2005 Share Posted 16 January , 2005 Probably much more lively thew when I first found it in 1990 when evrything except a few eateries shut at 6!! Now again a much more lively place at night I,m glad to say !! How strange. I have been visiting Ypres for 25 years and never found this to be the case! Maybe I was lucky or you were there on the one 'off' night each month?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 16 January , 2005 Share Posted 16 January , 2005 Hi Paul we seem to have different experiences, see Novotel on another thread. One can only say what one finds and if another has different experiences, that doesnt invalidate one or the others comments either way!! You obviously go far more frequently than I am able to understandably given your professional committments whilst mine remain more wedded to the NHS in blighty. But I wasnt knocking the place. It was pretty dead at night in 1990 and as I say over the past years particularly since the later 90,s has changed considerably. There are now as you know great places like the Shell Hole, Ramparts bar and many new restaurants and bars, not least the one next to the Novotel we last talked about. As I said it is greatly improved and now very alive at nights. Indeed if you dont book at peak times it can be difficult to eat as everywhere fills up after the Last Post on a busy night. SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 16 January , 2005 Share Posted 16 January , 2005 Gentlemen, please don't blame Ypres for this sacrilege. Blame Brussels. And the answer of course comes from ... Ypres. (Actually, Boezinge From "Ieper, De Herrezen Stad" [Ypres, The Resurrected Town], 1999, p. 102 A small photo. (I suppose if the authors had had Ian's, they would have been pleased with it !) The caption says : (translated) The British Tavern, against which Town-Major Beckles Willson reacted, was painted sky-blue and was opposite the Cloth Hall, near the corner of the Market Place and the D'Hondtstraat. The photo dates from 1919. And from the text that goes with it : (p. 101 - translated) Beckles Willson fiercely acted against the numerous huts that shot up like mushrooms all over town, as hotels, cafés or restaurants. On 5 July 1919 he wrote : "Unless measures are taken immediately, the Grand' Place soon will be lost as a shrine for the pilgrims. Right now six new huts are being built, all cafés (pubs). One, painted sky-blue, boldly names itself The British Tavern. Each day we hear reproaches from Belgian and French visitors who think we are responsible for this. The publican is from Brussels." Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Fantastic information, Aurel. That puts thing much better in context. Of course, this was at a time when Churchill was proposing Ypres should stay perpetually as rubble so the arrival of the pubs would have certainly upset some sensibilities - but succoured many pilgrims and visitors with a thirst ! Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientguide Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Well done Aurel and Ian a most interesting thread as I find the immediate post war period and reconstruction very interesting. I note in the small photo the building appears to have acqurried a second wing at the back so dating Ians photo even earlier probably shortly after its erection and opening and after having been painted the offending light blue colour. Also there appear to be two large guns parked outside of it. Was that the town-majors way pf saying ""Remove it or lose it??" SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Thanks, Aurel, for posting that picture. I have seen Ian's of the "British Tavern" before but it was great to find out exactly where the building stood. (It must have had quite a short life based on what I know of the susequent rebuilding.) Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Yes, Ypres must have had something of the nature of a gold rush town as builders , masons and other craftsmen poured in for the re-building. Obviously there will still be a substantial British military presence in 1919 and I presume the pilgrims also started to arrive from 1919 onwards - although I presume in small numbers initially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Thanks, Tom and Ian and SG, for the response to my response. And yes, I forgot to mention that Ian's photo indeed must be older than the one in "Ieper - De Herrezen Stad". (And do you see what is left of the St.-Jacobskerk, in the background, right of the pub ?) And of course I understand that the Town-Major took offence at the sky-blue colour the Brussels publican used. He should have used yellow of course. (My favourite colour. ) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 (...) and I presume the pilgrims also started to arrive from 1919 onwards - although I presume in small numbers initially. Ian, Small numbers ... Yes, here is a small number. And they obviously had a good time. And nice clothes. And provded a nice contrast with the background (ruins of St. Martin's Cathedral) Not sure though whether the boy is holding a Mauser of a Lee Enfield. Ca. 1919 - From Ieper - De Herrezen Stad, p. 147 Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Nice picture Aurel. The do have the look of the English abroad but perhaps not pilgrims . Did visitors take day trips from Bruges, Ostend etc to Ypres ? I am sure such outings would have been on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Yes, I'm sure there were such trips. I think I remember seeing photos that apparently showed a tour including these places (among others Nieuwpoort (Newport) ) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Out of interest this is the main square in August 1924, with quite a few tourists in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 A close up shows no tavern, but certainly a 'souvenir shop' - I wonder how much of this shops contents are now on Ebay!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 And seems 'taverns' were not just restricted to Ypres: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Good grief what a massive rebuilding job that was. Thanks for the pictures, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Another view from Hill 60. Think it must be from a series of photographs. This photo comes from my book 'Archiefbeelden' only available in Dutch but an English version will be in the shops this year. Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Can you imagine the cheerful warm welcome that would have awaited you when you ventured in after a tour of a very bleak Hill 60 - no doubt in 1920 it was a very great deal removed from the rural "where sheep safely graze" appearance today. What tales must have been told after a few beers there ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Oen Posted 18 January , 2005 Share Posted 18 January , 2005 One of the best threads I've seen. Thanks Men !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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