Correction Report: 7th Bn AIF on Menin Gate Memorial instead of Villers-Bretonneux Memorial

[laughton]

From this main topic regarding the Heath Cemetery, Harbonnieres:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/265515-heath-cemetery-harbonnieres/

 

He is probably in Heath Cemetery as well, but for the moment we know he is named on the wrong memorial.

 

ERROR REPORT: There is also one of the men of this battalion on the Menin Gate Memorial in Ypres? Henry William Hart #2691 (Service Record). He was buried northeast of Harbonnieres at  62d.R.27.b.3.0 (assuming the "6" is a "b"). See MCMaster Map [Corbie] 62d or [Harbonnieres] 62d.SE. Reported WIA then MIA then KIA 23 August 1918. See report of death (page 4 of 39). The rest of his record checks out, it is the same man. He is on the Menin Gate record (see 5670883). He is the only H. W. Hart that served with Australia. The war diary does confirm they were at Harbonnieres area on that day(page 6 of 85), specifically at St. Martin's Wood, BN HQ at 62d.R.28.c.5.4. The Harbonnieres map shows a St. Martin Woods covering a large area of sectors  R.23 and R.29. Will have to check the rest of the COG-BR documents for an Aussie in that location! May be in a different cemetery?

 

That does mean there was one more man of the 7th Battalion missing in August 1918. I will file an error report with the CWGC. We had a similar case in Canada (Martinelli) and they have yet to correct the matter - suggesting as long as he is on a memorial it is okay. Ottawa disagrees.

Edited 27 October , 2018 by laughton

[laughton]

Note that all but HART that are from the 7th Battalion AIF on the Menin Gate Memorial were lost in September-October 1917:

 

surname	forename	death	rank	#
AMOS	FREDERICK GEORGE	20-09-17	Private	'3619'
BAXTER	LESLIE LYNWOOD	20-09-17	Private	'6722'
BAXTER	THOMAS WILLIAM	20-09-17	Private	'1658'
DONOVAN	MALACHI	20-09-17	Private	'2788'
ELVINS	JAMES HAWKEY	20-09-17	Private	'2644A'
FITZGERALD	JAMES CASHEN	20-09-17	Sergeant	'2632'
FITZPATRICK	JOSEPH	20-09-17	Private	'6013'
FRY	FRANK	20-09-17	Private	'6993'
GOODINGHAM	WALTER WILLIAM	20-09-17	Private	'2670'
HEAP	WILLIAM	20-09-17	Lance Corporal	'11972'
HILL	GEORGE	20-09-17	Private	'6767'
HOLMES	WILLIAM	20-09-17	Private	'6760'
JOHANNSEN	ERNEST	20-09-17	Private	'2723'
O'NEIL	FITZGERALD	20-09-17	Private	'6808'
PETERS	ABSALOM	20-09-17	Private	'2347'
POHLSON	GUSTAF ADOLF	20-09-17	Private	'2877'
RICHENS	ENOCH WALTER	20-09-17	Private	'2265'
SCOTT	GEORGE PERCY	20-09-17	Private	'6345'
SHAW	CHARLES PERCIVAL	20-09-17	Corporal	'3920'
SMITH	LOT	20-09-17	Private	'6822'
SMITH	STEPHEN MARK	20-09-17	Private	'5765'
SMITH	SYDNEY CHARLES	20-09-17	Private	'663'
SPARKS	DANIEL LEONARD GRAHAM	20-09-17	Private	'5756'
STILLMAN	ARTHUR ROBERT	20-09-17	Private	'3269'
TAYLOR	EDGAR GILBERT	20-09-17	Lance Corporal	'722'
WHITE	ROBERT STEELE	20-09-17	Private	'5775'
YUNG	GEORGE ALFRED	20-09-17	Private	'7342'
EVANS	PYKE	21-09-17	Corporal	'3028'
IRELAND	ROY MAXWELL	21-09-17	Private	'1743A'
POLLOCK	WILLIAM GRIEVE	03-10-17	Lieutenant
AKERS	JOSEPH	04-10-17	Private	'3002'
ALLAN	ARCHIE	04-10-17	Lance Corporal	'4132'
ANDERSON	LESLIE ALEXANDER	04-10-17	Private	'6954'
BEDDELL	GEORGE	04-10-17	Private	'6619'
BELL	ALLAN ROSS	04-10-17	Private	'829'
BIGGS	HERBERT ALFRED	04-10-17	Private	'3241'
BIRRELL	WILLIAM HERBERT	04-10-17	Sergeant	'695'
BOOTH	WILLIAM ROBERT	04-10-17	Lieutenant
BURNES	FREDERICK	04-10-17	Private	'2112'
CARROLL	PATRICK	04-10-17	Private	'1324'
CAWLEY	ALFRED	04-10-17	Private	'66'
CHURCH	ROBERT HENRY	04-10-17	Private	'2595A'
COWELL	ARTHUR GEORGE	04-10-17	Private	'6238'
CURWEN	JOHN AIRLIE	04-10-17	Private	'6241'
DAVIDSON	ROBERT	04-10-17	Private	'6251'
DUNN	JOHN ELVIDGE	04-10-17	Private	'6747'
DUNSTAN	STEPHEN SAMUEL	04-10-17	Private	'534A'
FRY	PERCIVAL GORDON	04-10-17	Private	'6991'
GALLAND	ALEXANDER GLADSTONE	04-10-17	Sergeant	'446'
GOODLET	ALEXANDER THOMAS JAMES	04-10-17	Private	'4792'
HALEY	PATRICK	04-10-17	Private	'4203'
HAYES	ALBERT JOHN	04-10-17	Private	'5101'
HEATON	GEORGE	04-10-17	Lieutenant
HEPBURN	JAMES JOHN	04-10-17	Private	'6276'
JONES	WILLIAM FRANCIS	04-10-17	Sergeant	'2726A'
KEMPT	ARTHUR	04-10-17	Private	'6295'
KERSHAW	EDWARD	04-10-17	Private	'3798'
LIDSTONE	CLIFFORD ALEXIS	04-10-17	Private	'6531'
MARCHANT	JOHN CHARLES	04-10-17	Private	'6785'
MEPHAM	GEORGE CHARLES	04-10-17	Private	'596A'
MILLS	GORDON FRANCIS	04-10-17	Private	'2609'
MONTEITH	WALTER	04-10-17	Private	'936A'
MORISON	WILLIAM	04-10-17	Private	'6536'
MORRISON	JOHN KNOX	04-10-17	Private	'6547'
MUNRO	DAVID	04-10-17	Private	'1389'
McDONALD	LACHLAN LEIGH	04-10-17	Private	'2710'
McNAMARA	WILLIAM THOMAS PATRICK	04-10-17	Lance Corporal	'5422'
O'NEILL	PERVIS WILLIAM	04-10-17	Private	'6849'
PALMER	ALEXANDER ERNEST	04-10-17	Private	'6812'
REID	ALEXANDER JAMES	04-10-17	Private	'7061'
SMITH	CHARLIE	04-10-17	Private	'3249'
SMITH	SPENCER STANLEY	04-10-17	Private	'2666'
TRAVIS	HARRY THOMAS	04-10-17	Private	'6830'
WEBB	ELIJAH	04-10-17	Private	'1839'
WEIR	DAVID	04-10-17	Private	'703'
WHITEHEAD	ROBERT JOSEPH	04-10-17	Private	'3295'
WICKMAN	HAROLD WALTER	04-10-17	Private	'1021A'
WRENCH	EDWARD JOHN RICHARD	04-10-17	Private	'6601'
WRIGHT	HORACE EDWARD JAMES	04-10-17	Private	'5780'
YOUNG	WILFRED JOHN	04-10-17	Private	'416'
ARMSTRONG	ERNEST	05-10-17	Private	'5032'
BROWN	DUNCAN RAYMOND	05-10-17	Private	'6961'
DONOVAN	WALTER ERNEST	05-10-17	Lance Corporal	'862A'
REILLY	JAMES	05-10-17	Private	'5748'
RICE	HERBERT GEORGE	05-10-17	Private	'1710'
SALTER	HERBERT	05-10-17	Lance Corporal	'5220'
STACEY	ERNEST WILLIAM	05-10-17	Private	'4298'
COOPER	THOMAS JAMES	07-10-17	Private	'1925'
CROXFORD	JAMES JOHN	08-10-17	Private	'7855A'
BAKER	ERNEST	25-10-17	Private	'2566'
CHRISTMAS	ROBERT	26-10-17	Private	'6234'
RESUGGAN	GEORGE	26-10-17	Private	'1814'
HART	HENRY WILLIAM	23-08-18	Private	'2691'

[laughton]

There is a good chance that Pte. Hart is in the Heath Cemetery, Harbonnieres. They did find AIF in that area where he was reported buried. For example, take a look at the man in 4.E.8 from 62d.R.27.b.1.6.

 

[laughton]

The report has now been drafted. If anyone wants to see it, at this stage, let me know. As always, the final report gets posted to the web site with all the others.

[laughton]

The report is now here:

Private Henry William Hart #2691: 23 August 1918, 7^th Battalion Australian Infantry 

[laughton]

How times change ..... this is the same as I posted on the CEFSG for these 2 files. The two reports were sent together as after the Australian case appeared it became obvious it was a similar error - fix them!

#12 Post by rlaughton » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:55 pm

How times change! In 2015 the CWGC would not consider this request.
In March 2018, at my CWGC presentation in Ottawa, the Canadian Agency asked that I should try again, maybe a formal report.
That report was sent in December 2018.
Less than 3 months later it was approved, along with a similar case for an Australian soldier on the wrong memorial.
Both the files now say:

NB.
The commemoration for this casualty has recently been transferred to this Memorial. However, it will not be possible to add his name to the Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.

Here is the report that Tim and I submitted in December:
December 31, 2018: CWGC File #___ (they processed it without assigning a file number?)
Name to be moved from the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial to the Vimy Memorial
Private John Montanelli #24267: 7 March 1915, 13th Battalion Canadian Expeditionary Force
UPDATE: https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casu ... lli,-john/
This is the similar report for the Australian that we posted on the GWF:
Correction Report: 7th Bn AIF on Menin Gate Memorial instead of Villers-Bretonneux Memorial
UPDATE: https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casu ... y-william/

-----Original Message-----
From: "CWGC Enquiry Support Team"
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:40am
To: "rlaughton
Subject: Incorrect memorials
Dear Mr. Laughton,
Thank you for pointing out the errors in our records which we have now had verified. As a result, records for the 2 casualties have now been amended on our website to show that they will be added to the appropriate memorial's addenda panel. Please note, this work could take up to 18 months to complete.
Yours sincerely
Roy Hemington
Records Data Manager
Commonwealth War Graves Commission, 
Maidenhead, Berkshire, United Kingdom

[nigelcave]

 

 

Over the years I have noticed that there is a not insubstantial number of commemorations of British soldiers on the wrong memorials - i.e. soldiers who were definitely killed outside the 'boundaries' of a memorial but who are commemorated on it. For example (and I am away from my books, so cannot give details) I came across several killed at First Ypres who lost their lives well north of the northern boundary of the Plugstreet memorial to the missing; and I recall coming across at least two on the Thiepval Memorial who were killed north of Arras.

 

And then there is the 'oddity' of a single (Royal) Newfoundland Regiment commem. (2/Lt HG Barrett, killed August 1917) on the Tyne Cot Memorial and on an addenda panel at that, if I remember correctly. He is recorded on the Newfoundland Memorial to the Missing at B-H. If you go to the CWGC website, he is not to be found at Tyne Cot. Most odd. I know that the anomaly had been noticed, at least locally, by the CWGC because the Area Director at the time, whom I met at some function or the other in the Salient, knew of it when it came up in conversation but had no idea how the situation had arisen. I must say I have been disinclined to follow it up, if only because it gives Newfoundland some sort of 'memorial' to its battalion's period in the Salient during Third Ypres

[laughton]

2nd Lt. Barrett was initially reported KIA in Belgium - see page 4 of 79 in his ervice record. Once the error was recognized I would have to assume his name was removed from the memorial in Belgium.

 

A letter in that file also says that the Department of Militia (Newfoundland) send the father a photopgraph of his son's grave in Artillery Wood Cemetery, which is located in Belgium at 28.C.1.c.3.8. Maybe the family went to look for the grave, could not find it, and they incorrectly listed him on the Tyne Cot Memorial? Strange that an official letter of August 1921 confirms that his body was recovered and buried at Artillery Wood.

 

On July 4, 1916 hr id reported to be at Wadsworth Hospital in London, recovering from a serious head wound? That was changed to a flesh wound in the thigh. It was also reported as a bomb wound to the ear and thigh.

 

It would be interesting to look at the Artillery Wood Cemetery to see if there is any suggestion of any Newfoundlanders in the cemetery.