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laughton

Correction Report: 7th Bn AIF on Menin Gate Memorial instead of Villers-Bretonneux Memorial

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laughton

From this main topic regarding the Heath Cemetery, Harbonnieres:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/265515-heath-cemetery-harbonnieres/

 

He is probably in Heath Cemetery as well, but for the moment we know he is named on the wrong memorial.

 

ERROR REPORT: There is also one of the men of this battalion on the Menin Gate Memorial in Ypres? Henry William Hart #2691 (Service Record). He was buried northeast of Harbonnieres at  62d.R.27.b.3.0 (assuming the "6" is a "b"). See MCMaster Map [Corbie] 62d or [Harbonnieres] 62d.SE. Reported WIA then MIA then KIA 23 August 1918. See report of death (page 4 of 39). The rest of his record checks out, it is the same man. He is on the Menin Gate record (see 5670883). He is the only H. W. Hart that served with Australia. The war diary does confirm they were at Harbonnieres area on that day(page 6 of 85), specifically at St. Martin's Wood, BN HQ at 62d.R.28.c.5.4. The Harbonnieres map shows a St. Martin Woods covering a large area of sectors  R.23 and R.29. Will have to check the rest of the COG-BR documents for an Aussie in that location! May be in a different cemetery?

 

That does mean there was one more man of the 7th Battalion missing in August 1918. I will file an error report with the CWGC. We had a similar case in Canada (Martinelli) and they have yet to correct the matter - suggesting as long as he is on a memorial it is okay. Ottawa disagrees.

Edited by laughton

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laughton

Note that all but HART that are from the 7th Battalion AIF on the Menin Gate Memorial were lost in September-October 1917:

 

surname forename death rank #
AMOS FREDERICK GEORGE 20-09-17 Private '3619'
BAXTER LESLIE LYNWOOD 20-09-17 Private '6722'
BAXTER THOMAS WILLIAM 20-09-17 Private '1658'
DONOVAN MALACHI 20-09-17 Private '2788'
ELVINS JAMES HAWKEY 20-09-17 Private '2644A'
FITZGERALD JAMES CASHEN 20-09-17 Sergeant '2632'
FITZPATRICK JOSEPH 20-09-17 Private '6013'
FRY FRANK 20-09-17 Private '6993'
GOODINGHAM WALTER WILLIAM 20-09-17 Private '2670'
HEAP WILLIAM 20-09-17 Lance Corporal '11972'
HILL GEORGE 20-09-17 Private '6767'
HOLMES WILLIAM 20-09-17 Private '6760'
JOHANNSEN ERNEST 20-09-17 Private '2723'
O'NEIL FITZGERALD 20-09-17 Private '6808'
PETERS ABSALOM 20-09-17 Private '2347'
POHLSON GUSTAF ADOLF 20-09-17 Private '2877'
RICHENS ENOCH WALTER 20-09-17 Private '2265'
SCOTT GEORGE PERCY 20-09-17 Private '6345'
SHAW CHARLES PERCIVAL 20-09-17 Corporal '3920'
SMITH LOT 20-09-17 Private '6822'
SMITH STEPHEN MARK 20-09-17 Private '5765'
SMITH SYDNEY CHARLES 20-09-17 Private '663'
SPARKS DANIEL LEONARD GRAHAM 20-09-17 Private '5756'
STILLMAN ARTHUR ROBERT 20-09-17 Private '3269'
TAYLOR EDGAR GILBERT 20-09-17 Lance Corporal '722'
WHITE ROBERT STEELE 20-09-17 Private '5775'
YUNG GEORGE ALFRED 20-09-17 Private '7342'
EVANS PYKE 21-09-17 Corporal '3028'
IRELAND ROY MAXWELL 21-09-17 Private '1743A'
POLLOCK WILLIAM GRIEVE 03-10-17 Lieutenant  
AKERS JOSEPH 04-10-17 Private '3002'
ALLAN ARCHIE 04-10-17 Lance Corporal '4132'
ANDERSON LESLIE ALEXANDER 04-10-17 Private '6954'
BEDDELL GEORGE 04-10-17 Private '6619'
BELL ALLAN ROSS 04-10-17 Private '829'
BIGGS HERBERT ALFRED 04-10-17 Private '3241'
BIRRELL WILLIAM HERBERT 04-10-17 Sergeant '695'
BOOTH WILLIAM ROBERT 04-10-17 Lieutenant  
BURNES FREDERICK 04-10-17 Private '2112'
CARROLL PATRICK 04-10-17 Private '1324'
CAWLEY ALFRED 04-10-17 Private '66'
CHURCH ROBERT HENRY 04-10-17 Private '2595A'
COWELL ARTHUR GEORGE 04-10-17 Private '6238'
CURWEN JOHN AIRLIE 04-10-17 Private '6241'
DAVIDSON ROBERT 04-10-17 Private '6251'
DUNN JOHN ELVIDGE 04-10-17 Private '6747'
DUNSTAN STEPHEN SAMUEL 04-10-17 Private '534A'
FRY PERCIVAL GORDON 04-10-17 Private '6991'
GALLAND ALEXANDER GLADSTONE 04-10-17 Sergeant '446'
GOODLET ALEXANDER THOMAS JAMES 04-10-17 Private '4792'
HALEY PATRICK 04-10-17 Private '4203'
HAYES ALBERT JOHN 04-10-17 Private '5101'
HEATON GEORGE 04-10-17 Lieutenant  
HEPBURN JAMES JOHN 04-10-17 Private '6276'
JONES WILLIAM FRANCIS 04-10-17 Sergeant '2726A'
KEMPT ARTHUR 04-10-17 Private '6295'
KERSHAW EDWARD 04-10-17 Private '3798'
LIDSTONE CLIFFORD ALEXIS 04-10-17 Private '6531'
MARCHANT JOHN CHARLES 04-10-17 Private '6785'
MEPHAM GEORGE CHARLES 04-10-17 Private '596A'
MILLS GORDON FRANCIS 04-10-17 Private '2609'
MONTEITH WALTER 04-10-17 Private '936A'
MORISON WILLIAM 04-10-17 Private '6536'
MORRISON JOHN KNOX 04-10-17 Private '6547'
MUNRO DAVID 04-10-17 Private '1389'
McDONALD LACHLAN LEIGH 04-10-17 Private '2710'
McNAMARA WILLIAM THOMAS PATRICK 04-10-17 Lance Corporal '5422'
O'NEILL PERVIS WILLIAM 04-10-17 Private '6849'
PALMER ALEXANDER ERNEST 04-10-17 Private '6812'
REID ALEXANDER JAMES 04-10-17 Private '7061'
SMITH CHARLIE 04-10-17 Private '3249'
SMITH SPENCER STANLEY 04-10-17 Private '2666'
TRAVIS HARRY THOMAS 04-10-17 Private '6830'
WEBB ELIJAH 04-10-17 Private '1839'
WEIR DAVID 04-10-17 Private '703'
WHITEHEAD ROBERT JOSEPH 04-10-17 Private '3295'
WICKMAN HAROLD WALTER 04-10-17 Private '1021A'
WRENCH EDWARD JOHN RICHARD 04-10-17 Private '6601'
WRIGHT HORACE EDWARD JAMES 04-10-17 Private '5780'
YOUNG WILFRED JOHN 04-10-17 Private '416'
ARMSTRONG ERNEST 05-10-17 Private '5032'
BROWN DUNCAN RAYMOND 05-10-17 Private '6961'
DONOVAN WALTER ERNEST 05-10-17 Lance Corporal '862A'
REILLY JAMES 05-10-17 Private '5748'
RICE HERBERT GEORGE 05-10-17 Private '1710'
SALTER HERBERT 05-10-17 Lance Corporal '5220'
STACEY ERNEST WILLIAM 05-10-17 Private '4298'
COOPER THOMAS JAMES 07-10-17 Private '1925'
CROXFORD JAMES JOHN 08-10-17 Private '7855A'
BAKER ERNEST 25-10-17 Private '2566'
CHRISTMAS ROBERT 26-10-17 Private '6234'
RESUGGAN GEORGE 26-10-17 Private '1814'
HART HENRY WILLIAM 23-08-18 Private '2691'

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laughton

There is a good chance that Pte. Hart is in the Heath Cemetery, Harbonnieres. They did find AIF in that area where he was reported buried. For example, take a look at the man in 4.E.8 from 62d.R.27.b.1.6.

 

doc2301346.JPG

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laughton

The report has now been drafted. If anyone wants to see it, at this stage, let me know. As always, the final report gets posted to the web site with all the others.

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laughton

How times change ..... this is the same as I posted on the CEFSG for these 2 files. The two reports were sent together as after the Australian case appeared it became obvious it was a similar error - fix them!

#12 Post by rlaughton » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:55 pm

How times change! In 2015 the CWGC would not consider this request.
In March 2018, at my CWGC presentation in Ottawa, the Canadian Agency asked that I should try again, maybe a formal report.
That report was sent in December 2018.
Less than 3 months later it was approved, along with a similar case for an Australian soldier on the wrong memorial.
Both the files now say:
NB.
The commemoration for this casualty has recently been transferred to this Memorial. However, it will not be possible to add his name to the Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.
Here is the report that Tim and I submitted in December:
December 31, 2018: CWGC File #___ (they processed it without assigning a file number?)
Name to be moved from the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial to the Vimy Memorial
Private John Montanelli #24267: 7 March 1915, 13th Battalion Canadian Expeditionary Force
UPDATE: https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casu ... lli,-john/
This is the similar report for the Australian that we posted on the GWF:
Correction Report: 7th Bn AIF on Menin Gate Memorial instead of Villers-Bretonneux Memorial
UPDATE: https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casu ... y-william/
-----Original Message-----
From: "CWGC Enquiry Support Team"
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:40am
To: "rlaughton
Subject: Incorrect memorials
Dear Mr. Laughton,
Thank you for pointing out the errors in our records which we have now had verified. As a result, records for the 2 casualties have now been amended on our website to show that they will be added to the appropriate memorial's addenda panel. Please note, this work could take up to 18 months to complete.
Yours sincerely
Roy Hemington
Records Data Manager
Commonwealth War Graves Commission, 
Maidenhead, Berkshire, United Kingdom

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nigelcave

 

 

Over the years I have noticed that there is a not insubstantial number of commemorations of British soldiers on the wrong memorials - i.e. soldiers who were definitely killed outside the 'boundaries' of a memorial but who are commemorated on it. For example (and I am away from my books, so cannot give details) I came across several killed at First Ypres who lost their lives well north of the northern boundary of the Plugstreet memorial to the missing; and I recall coming across at least two on the Thiepval Memorial who were killed north of Arras.

 

And then there is the 'oddity' of a single (Royal) Newfoundland Regiment commem. (2/Lt HG Barrett, killed August 1917) on the Tyne Cot Memorial and on an addenda panel at that, if I remember correctly. He is recorded on the Newfoundland Memorial to the Missing at B-H. If you go to the CWGC website, he is not to be found at Tyne Cot. Most odd. I know that the anomaly had been noticed, at least locally, by the CWGC because the Area Director at the time, whom I met at some function or the other in the Salient, knew of it when it came up in conversation but had no idea how the situation had arisen. I must say I have been disinclined to follow it up, if only because it gives Newfoundland some sort of 'memorial' to its battalion's period in the Salient during Third Ypres

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laughton

2nd Lt. Barrett was initially reported KIA in Belgium - see page 4 of 79 in his ervice record. Once the error was recognized I would have to assume his name was removed from the memorial in Belgium.

 

A letter in that file also says that the Department of Militia (Newfoundland) send the father a photopgraph of his son's grave in Artillery Wood Cemetery, which is located in Belgium at 28.C.1.c.3.8. Maybe the family went to look for the grave, could not find it, and they incorrectly listed him on the Tyne Cot Memorial? Strange that an official letter of August 1921 confirms that his body was recovered and buried at Artillery Wood.

 

On July 4, 1916 hr id reported to be at Wadsworth Hospital in London, recovering from a serious head wound? That was changed to a flesh wound in the thigh. It was also reported as a bomb wound to the ear and thigh.

 

It would be interesting to look at the Artillery Wood Cemetery to see if there is any suggestion of any Newfoundlanders in the cemetery.

 

 

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