ANZAC Pugarees - WWI

[Biggles]

G'day Gents,

 

As a WWI reenactor, I am wondering if I could wear a WWII style pugaree like some of these WWI ANZAC gentlemen in the photo below.  I know the usual style of pugaree is a plain woollen band.

Other reenactors say "I'm wearing the wrong pugaree for WWI."  This photo proves otherwise, right?  I know I didn't word the question well, but hope someone can assure me of this.

 

Cheers,

Caleb

 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Caleb,

Yes, the similarity is close enough: the latter Pugarees were probably made from the old WWI patterns, anyway.

As far as the interesting AIF Officer group is concerned (numbered 572), can you identify any of them...?

I attach a circa 1918 portrait of my great-uncle (ALH Tpr Francis Lindsay, KiA Palestine 1918); a circa 1920 picture of my grandfather (53 Bn AIF Coy Cdr Capt W. F. Lindsay, MC); and in 1937 after having been awarded his ED (Lt-Col., MC, ED) - which show their Pugarees in some detail.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[FROGSMILE]

Looking at contemporary images I've noticed that the puggaree seems to have been a dressy addition to the hat and seen primarily on officers, and ORs in pre-war review order (often with a single contrasting coloured fold), as well as, in some units, mounted men during the war.  By far the most common dress is a plain band based on the visual evidence, but I think that you can get away with either.  In particular notice the variations amongst the group of resting ALH.

 

Edited 22 October , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

Super photos!

A formidable lot, indeed.

Here is one from 1914, which I forgot to attach...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[Guest]

Mate,

 

From my understanding was the paggaree was issued pre war to the Milita, and many Light Horse Regts had them, with pugs with number of color bands.

 

During the war these continued to be worn by those who had them, even when in the AIF, this included Milita badges as well.

 

While the broad plain pug was issued in the AIF, this didn't stop, mostly officers, from wearing their Milita pugs.

 

You can see these types worn in these photos with there white strips.

There should be a list of what colors were issued some where to the Milita, I'll look for it.

 

So far as I know plain pugs were not issued pre or during the war but again I will need to double check that.

 

S.B

[Biggles]

Thank you very much Gentlemen!  I appreciate the assurance and the many great photos.  I'm sorry Kim, I don't know anything about the photo I posted, other than it is in Palestine circa 1918.  I will be wearing the uniform for a troop train reenactment on the 10th of Nov. 

Thanks again.

 

Cheers,

Caleb

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Caleb,

Thanks for that.

Have a good 10 November!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[Guest]

Mate,

 

Found what I was after

 

1885	Plaited leather (3 plaits)	38mm (1½ inches)	38mm (1½ inches)
1890	5 pleats (folds)	64mm (2½ inches)	76mm (3 inches)
1903	7 pleats	38mm (1½ inches)	64mm (2½ inches)
1912	no fold hat band	51 mm (2 inches)	51 mm (2 inches)
WW1	no fold hat band	51 mm (2 inches)	51 mm (2 inches)
WW2	no fold hat band	51 mm (2 inches)	51 mm (2 inches)
195?	6 pleats	not recorded	not recorded
1967	5 pleats	38mm (1½ inches)	64mm (2½ inches)
2002	7 pleats	38mm (1½ inches)	64mm (2½ inches)
As with the 7 points on the Federation Star the 7 pleats on the puggaree are meant to represent 1 for each of the 6 States and 1 to represent the Territories And Colors Date Unit/s Colour 1855 Victorian Mounted Rifles   Khaki 1890 NSW Cavalry   Red   Field Artillery NSW   Dark blue   Engineers NSW Blue and red   Mounted Infantry NSW ... White   1st Regt NSW Infantry   Light drab   2nd Regt NSW Infantry Green and drab   3rd Regt NSW Infantry Purple & drab (later purple & scarlet)   4th Regt NSW Infantry Yellow and red   Medical Staff Corps NSW   Dark drab   Reserves NSW ... White   General Staff NSW Blue and fawn   Permanent Staff NSW   Blue 1894 1st Regt NSW Infantry Blue with white fold   2nd Regt NSW Infantry Green with white fold   3rd Regt NSW Infantry Blue with red fold   4th Regt NSW Infantry Blue with yellow fold 1896 Irish Rifles NSW Lincoln green & two green stripes   St George Rifles NSW Royal blue with buff stripes   Australian Rifles NSW Green with one white stripe 1897 1st Australian Horse   Black 1899 Boer War Troops   Khaki 1903 Light Horse Khaki & white centre fold   Artillery Khaki & Blue centre fold   Engineers Khaki & Red centre fold   Infantry Khaki & Dark green centre fold   Army Service Corps  Khaki & White centre fold   Army Medical Corps Khaki & Chocolate centre fold   Army Ordnance Corps Khaki & Blue centre fold   Veterinary Department Khaki & Maroon centre fold   Volunteer Infantry (except Scottish) Khaki & Dark green centre fold 1908 All units remained as 1903 and added   Australian Intelligence Corps Khaki & Pale blue centre fold 1912  Light Horse ... White   Artillery   Scarlet   Engineers   Dark blue   Infantry   Green   Signals   Royal purple   Army Service Corps White with blue centre stripe   Medical Corps   Chocolate   Veterinary Corps   Maroon   Army Ordnance Corps Blue with red centre stripe   Army Legal Department   French grey   Australian Intelligence Corps   Pale blue   Automobile Corps   Brown (leather hat band) WW1 All Arms and Services (AIF)   Khaki (6th Lt Horse Regt; wallaby fur bands   Mate hope that clears up your question, so yes there were pre war pugs that were plain but under the reforms of 1903 they started to have colors so differant the corps.   With the raising of the 1st AIF in 1914 further standardisation occurred. Plain, NO FOLD Although the white-striped folded puggaree worn by militia light horse units had been replaced by the plain khaki band, AIF light horse units were later allowed to wear the original; evidence of its use can be seen inperiod photographs.   Approval was later rescinded; directions for AIF units to adopt a plain khaki puggaree soon followed (and were ignored in many cases). Mate I should of added that while plain Pugs were worn in France, this didn't stop the Light Horse units in Egypt/Palestine from still wearing their Milita pugs, as shown in many photos for the war, and as stated "the reform was ignored in many cases".   Cheers S.B

Edited 28 October , 2018 by stevebecker

[Biggles]

On 25/10/2018 at 10:57, stevebecker said:

Mate,

 

Found what I was after

 

1885	Plaited leather (3 plaits)	38mm (1½ inches)	38mm (1½ inches)
1890	5 pleats (folds)	64mm (2½ inches)	76mm (3 inches)
1903	7 pleats	38mm (1½ inches)	64mm (2½ inches)
1912	no fold hat band	51 mm (2 inches)	51 mm (2 inches)
WW1	no fold hat band	51 mm (2 inches)	51 mm (2 inches)
WW2	no fold hat band	51 mm (2 inches)	51 mm (2 inches)
195?	6 pleats	not recorded	not recorded
1967	5 pleats	38mm (1½ inches)	64mm (2½ inches)
2002	7 pleats	38mm (1½ inches)	64mm (2½ inches)
As with the 7 points on the Federation Star the 7 pleats on the puggaree are meant to represent 1 for each of the 6 States and 1 to represent the Territories And Colors Date Unit/s Colour 1855 Victorian Mounted Rifles   Khaki 1890 NSW Cavalry   Red   Field Artillery NSW   Dark blue   Engineers NSW Blue and red   Mounted Infantry NSW ... White   1st Regt NSW Infantry   Light drab   2nd Regt NSW Infantry Green and drab   3rd Regt NSW Infantry Purple & drab (later purple & scarlet)   4th Regt NSW Infantry Yellow and red   Medical Staff Corps NSW   Dark drab   Reserves NSW ... White   General Staff NSW Blue and fawn   Permanent Staff NSW   Blue 1894 1st Regt NSW Infantry Blue with white fold   2nd Regt NSW Infantry Green with white fold   3rd Regt NSW Infantry Blue with red fold   4th Regt NSW Infantry Blue with yellow fold 1896 Irish Rifles NSW Lincoln green & two green stripes   St George Rifles NSW Royal blue with buff stripes   Australian Rifles NSW Green with one white stripe 1897 1st Australian Horse   Black 1899 Boer War Troops   Khaki 1903 Light Horse Khaki & white centre fold   Artillery Khaki & Blue centre fold   Engineers Khaki & Red centre fold   Infantry Khaki & Dark green centre fold   Army Service Corps  Khaki & White centre fold   Army Medical Corps Khaki & Chocolate centre fold   Army Ordnance Corps Khaki & Blue centre fold   Veterinary Department Khaki & Maroon centre fold   Volunteer Infantry (except Scottish) Khaki & Dark green centre fold 1908 All units remained as 1903 and added   Australian Intelligence Corps Khaki & Pale blue centre fold 1912  Light Horse ... White   Artillery   Scarlet   Engineers   Dark blue   Infantry   Green   Signals   Royal purple   Army Service Corps White with blue centre stripe   Medical Corps   Chocolate   Veterinary Corps   Maroon   Army Ordnance Corps Blue with red centre stripe   Army Legal Department   French grey   Australian Intelligence Corps   Pale blue   Automobile Corps   Brown (leather hat band) WW1 All Arms and Services (AIF)   Khaki (6th Lt Horse Regt; wallaby fur bands   Mate hope that clears up your question, so yes there were pre war pugs that were plain but under the reforms of 1903 they started to have colors so differant the corps.   With the raising of the 1st AIF in 1914 further standardisation occurred. Plain, NO FOLD Although the white-striped folded puggaree worn by militia light horse units had been replaced by the plain khaki band, AIF light horse units were later allowed to wear the original; evidence of its use can be seen inperiod photographs.   Approval was later rescinded; directions for AIF units to adopt a plain khaki puggaree soon followed (and were ignored in many cases). Mate I should of added that while plain Pugs were worn in France, this didn't stop the Light Horse units in Egypt/Palestine from still wearing their Milita pugs, as shown in many photos for the war, and as stated "the reform was ignored in many cases".   Cheers S.B

Just saw this, thanks mate.  I appreciate the info.

 

Cheers,

Caleb