Shell shock evacuation

[hammond146]

It's been suggested in my family that my grandfather was discharged from the 10th Battalion Worcestershire Regiment with shell shock. He wasn't wounded and his discharge just says 'sickness'. My question is - if it was shell shock, would he have gone through the same evacuation procedure as a wounded man. I know he ended up at Knaresborough auxiliary military hospital and was discharged on 26th November 1916. His details were Ernest John Faulkner private 20521 - enlisted 2nd September 1914, discharge 26th November 1916 through sickness. If it was not shell shock, is there any way of finding out what the sickness was. I have a copy of the Battalion's war diary and on 24th October 1916 a shell shock victim is mentioned but not named. It appears to be the only mention of shell shock in the diary but I can't believe that this was the only incidence. It's only a month before his discharge so it seems quite a short time to be diagnosed, shipped back to the UK and discharged. His service and medical records don't seem to have survived. I found the details of his discharge on the War Badge roll.

Thanks for any help.

Brian Faulkner

[petestarling]

Do not forget that there were all sorts of other diseases doing the rounds. Have you looked on Forces War Records to see if his name comes up at all. I found my Grandfather's name after a search on there and he appeared on an ambulance train and it gave hid diagnosis too. 

It really depends what was wrong with him as to how he was evacuated but I suspect he went via a Field Ambulance to a CCS and then back to the coast and to UK.

[TEW]

Not home at present so can only come up with ideas rather than facts. It seems very unlikely for a man to become shell shocked in the field and then discharged a month later. I've seen records of men severely shell shocked that don't get discharged for 2 years. Many men 'were' shell shocked after a battle but a few weeks in a rest camp saw them back in line. They can't really have assessed someone that quick.

As to evacuations's it's quite possible that a shell shock case would follow a specific route but what that was varied from army to army and corps to corps. In other words 2 men in different armies/corps on same date could expect quite a different 'treatment'.

Will see if there's anything on paper and re-post Monday.

TEW

[TEW]

Well, his number is actually 20251. He arrived in France with the rest of the battalion 19/7/1915 and as you say, discharged sick 26/11/1916. From that it's impossible to say what the illness was or when he contracted it. Bear in mind they would have attempted to cure him or at least assess the viability of that before discharging him. I'd suggest his illness originated at least some months before his discharge and maybe up to a year before.

 

I think you should check through the diary from the start to Nov 1916, that's only about 65 pages and just double check he isn't mentioned by name for any reason. That would at least establish a date he was still with the unit if he's mentioned.

 

Shell Shock Sick is a plausible war diagnosis but without a date it's impossible to know how that would have been viewed by the medical services. His battalion went through at least 4 Corps in the time frame.

TEW

[hammond146]

Thanks to you both for your replies and apologies for the regimental number typo (old age/finger trouble!).

You've both confirmed what I've been thinking - he must have been diagnosed some time before discharge. I've looked at FWR but, although there's a brief mention of him there's nothing medical that I can find. I'll go through the diary again and see if there's anything that might give an indication of what happened. It records that the Battalion OC, Col. Chesney had to relinquish command because of ill health in February 1916, and the  o- line history says that there was a lot of sickness that winter due to the very bad weather. Perhaps this had something to do with it.

Again, many thanks for your comments.

 

Brian

[hammond146]

Realised after my last post that Ernest was still with the Battalion on 1st July because he told me, when I was a child, that they were in reserve and he remembered vividly the trains full of wounded going past. From that, it would seem that he was at the assault on La Boiselle and probably High Wood - perhaps whatever happened, happened around that time.

Thanks again.

 

Brian

[Guest]

Mate,

 

The AIF used a number of words to show these men here's one

 

ANDERSON    Thomas Graham    2806    A/Sgt    6 LHR    19R to 2 LHTR 8-16 to CTU 9-16 Tos 11Co/3Bn ICC 12-16 to Orderly Room Clerk L/Sgt HQ/3Bn ICC 3-17 to Sgt 4-17 WIA 19-4-17 shell shock in fighting near Jack & Jill redoubt at 2nd Gaza RTA wounded disch 15-3-18 MU shell shock & neurasthenia (British Royal Engineers (Glasgow) TF 4 years)
 

Neurathenia appears on many records to show this and Shell shock gets a small entry

 

APTHORPE    Neil    2140    Pte    12Bn    6R Tos 8-15 (G) to 3Co/1Bn ICC 1-16 to 52Bn 3-16 to Dvr 111Bty/24 FAB 3-16 F&B disch 24-1-17 MU shell shock relist (77536) AKA true name Neil McGilvray three brothers in AIF + one in NZEF
 

This man shows shell shock but is not shown wounded during the war, this was often used to show soldiers with some mental illness, through there war service or not.

 

as per these two

 

BAILLEY    William    652    Pte    04 LHR    1R Tos 2-15 WIA 4-12-15 frozen feet (frost bite) at Ryries Post (G) disch 25-6-16 MU shell shock
BARNES    William Albert    873    Pte    11 LHR    2R tos B Sqn att DSqn/05 LHR 10-15 WIA 18-10-15 shell shock reported close to shell at Chatham Post (G) disch 13-9-16 MU neurasthenia
 

So veriations are many and its not certian on many.

 

S.B

[hammond146]

SB.

Unfortunately the war diary doesn't have any information like that. It only gives casualty figures and the names of officers killed or wounded.

Thanks anyway.

 

Brian

[SWMDgen]

Greetings Brian I hope you don't mind me reinvigorating this topic but it seems daft to start a new one on the same subject albe the situation slightly different.

I'm trying to get some background to provide some sort of story for my grandfather given that we only have his 2nd Bn Suffolk medal rolls/cards and the SWB roll. This later has him discharged 1 Oct 1919 with Neurasthenia. SOooooo I'm wondering if anyone can assist by providing any info about what the evacuation process might have been and where he might have been sent .... the 2nd Bn was in the 3rd Div in 1918 and involved in a hard stand at Wancourt Rd [1st battle of Arras Mar 1918 I believe] and then the Battle of the Somme over Aug/Sep.  Like many veterans he didn't talk about the war but he never mentioned getting into Germany so I suspect he wasn't involved in the push int the Rhineland in Dec.

 

SO... I'm thinking that sometime in the lull after Mar or during the Somme, possibly even during a rest rotation, he was diagnosed at a FA unit.  From what I've read by this stage he's likely to have been kept in France for a couple of weeks to see if he's 'snap out of it' and then moved further back and then to the UK.    I understand this is all a shot in the dark BUT if anyone has a Casualty Form with shell shock/ Neurasthenia as a diagnosis I'd really appreciate them cutting/posting the relevant line so I can get a sense of the treatment and evacuation process and the timeline.process. I thought at first that he'd maybe had quite an extensive treatment regime but given the timing it just as likely that he was assigned depot duties [his Bn ref is Depot Suffolks on the SWB roll].  I'd also like to get a sense of the hospitals he might have been referred to....being based in the Eastern bump London might have been as close any anything ....but........ 

Sorry to have wittered on.  Any help much appreciated

Kind regards

MHS