Guest mjsjava Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 I believe that this photo is of my great uncle Matthew Tudor from Montgomeryshire. I have been unable to identify the cap badge from any of the online databases. Does anyone have any idea which regiment this is? Thanks, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 Hello, The badge does not ring any bells (terrible metafor) and does not look like any regimental badge I know. It is reminiscent of badges worn by OTCs and as it looks as if the soldier's buttons have the Royal Arms rather than any regimental crest, it is perhaps the case that the soldier was serving with such a training unit. Regards Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 me neither, the only one i can see with a slight resemblence is an ESSEX badge (with the three simitars in a sheild in the middle on the sheild) where did he live Marilyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrB Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 I have checked Cox and I cannot find an OTC badge there that resembles yours. Like harribobs and Old Tom, I am scratching my head. (and I alway kinda prided myself on knowledge, or reference to, badges, ST's and collars) DrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 I have checked Cox and I cannot find an OTC badge there that resembles yours. Like harribobs and Old Tom, I am scratching my head. (and I alway kinda prided myself on knowledge, or reference to, badges, ST's and collars) DrB Complete guess, although a semi-educated one. Given this mans age, he is possibly a member of the WW1 equivilent of the Home Guard, the Voluntary Training Corps. The VTC wore a number of badges, depending on where raised etc. Does his badge look like the coat-of-arms of anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot#1 Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 I agree. He does look abit old. He does not have a medal index card that i can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrB Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 Bingo! K&K, Vol 1, pg 387, Glamorgan VTC, picture #1623. Badge is supposed to be in bronze though. DrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Samson Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 Bingo! K&K, Vol 1, pg 387, Glamorgan VTC, picture #1623. Well done, DrB! I only have a copy Ian Swinnerton's Identifying your World War I Soldier from Badges and Photographs which is fine for identifying most of the more common cap badges, not this one though. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 it looks as if the soldier's buttons have the Royal Arms rather than any regimental crest, it is perhaps the case that the soldier was serving with such a training unit. I am not a button man [more zip-like] but surely OR buttons were ALL GS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrB Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 For langleybaston...that is my understanding. All the OR buttons were GS and only the officers and senior NCO's wore the regimental ones. Or's returned to the regimental ones some time after the war. At least that is what I have read. It was in Wilkinson's "Discovering" series on Buttons. The reference I use is on page 62, OR's, except senior OR's and officers, GS button from 1871 to 1924, full dress and service dress. DrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 Bingo! K&K, Vol 1, pg 387, Glamorgan VTC, picture #1623. Badge is supposed to be in bronze though. DrB well done that man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riflegreen Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 With regard to buttons , I think the OR's were issued withwhatever was available at the time , I have a considerable number of Rifle Brigade phots & in group photos there is a mix of regimental black buttons and GS buttons . These are in the main WW1 pics , even photos of OR's in the training battalions have a mix , early war time photos show all regt. buttons and later a mix of both . Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 With regard to buttons , I think the OR's were issued withwhatever was available at the time , I have a considerable number of Rifle Brigade phots & in group photos there is a mix of regimental black buttons and GS buttons . These are in the main WW1 pics , even photos of OR's in the training battalions have a mix , early war time photos show all regt. buttons and later a mix of both . Chris I stand to be corrected on this, but I have an idea that the VTC did not wear the same uniform as the army. I think I read somewhere that a lot of them purchased their own uniforms, that were not khaki. IIRC, they also had the option of a Norfolk Jacket? I would imagine that tailors purchased GS buttons to make the uniforms look more like the army uniform. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 With regard to buttons , I think the OR's were issued withwhatever was available at the time , I have a considerable number of Rifle Brigade phots & in group photos there is a mix of regimental black buttons and GS buttons . These are in the main WW1 pics , even photos of OR's in the training battalions have a mix , early war time photos show all regt. buttons and later a mix of both . Chris I stand to be corrected on this, but I have an idea that the VTC did not wear the same uniform as the army. I think I read somewhere that a lot of them purchased their own uniforms, that were not khaki. IIRC, they also had the option of a Norfolk Jacket? I would imagine that tailors purchased GS buttons to make the uniforms look more like the army uniform. Anyone know? Just remembered, the article was in at least two issues of the Military Historical Society Journal, ten or 15 years ago. It came complete with photos. Anyone have access? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mjsjava Posted 15 January , 2005 Share Posted 15 January , 2005 Thank you so much every one. No wonder I couldn't find the cap badge in any of the books, etc. I looked at nor any record in the medal indexes! In view of what you have told me this is my great grandfather, also called Matthew Tudor, who had moved to Cardiff in the 1900's. He was born in 1858 so would have been at least 56 when this photo was taken. I will have to look through all the old boxes next time I'm home to see if the badge is there. I'm sure I saw it when I was a child. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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