Henry_Hoofhearted Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 I wonder if anyone can assist me. I’m researching my ancestor, John Belton, who died in France in 1918. I have located the cemetery at which he is buried, but I would like to identify precisely where he received his fatal wounds. I have in my possession a document issued by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission entitled Concentration of Graves (Exhumation and Reburial). The document gives a map reference of the exact place where John died. The map reference, Sheet 33: Q.20.C.5.9., is meaningless to me and I was hoping that someone would be able to help me by pointing me to the appropriate map or by identifying the location. Thank you for attending to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgibson150 Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 (edited) Welcome to the Forum. I think you have mixed up the references. The grave number is 33 and the Sheet number is 57c. I will try and locate the reference. David Edited 5 October , 2018 by dgibson150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteStarLine Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 (edited) Hi Henry, can you confirm it is Sheet 33? Or give us his exact name as I tried https://www.cwgc.org/search-results?term=john+belton&fullname=john+belton&name=john+belton&csort=dateofdeath&tab=wardead. Update: Post Amended as it is Sheet 57C. Correction in post #17 Edited 6 October , 2018 by WhiteStarLine Correct map sheet is 57C not 57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 (edited) 33 is the number of the present grave in row E. The map sheet is 57 C SE in square Q 20 with c being the lower left quadrant 5 tenths along and 9 tenths up. The location is about 5 miles south of Hermies Hill cemetery in the village of Metz en Couture. In the link image, it is between the a of Lombards and the e of Elboise. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=50.0714&lon=3.0712&layers=101465200&right=BingHyb I'll see if I can find reference in the war diary. Max Edited 5 October , 2018 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry_Hoofhearted Posted 5 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, dgibson150 said: Welcome to the Forum. I think you have mixed up the references. The grave number is 33 and the Sheet number is 57c. I will try and locate the reference. David Thanks, David. You're right, my mistake. Grave 33 - sheet 57c. Q20.C.5.9. Edited 5 October , 2018 by Henry_Hoofhearted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Definitely Metz. War diary is clear. The battalion occupied Dessart Ridge just south of the village but were forced back in bounds in the face of the enemy's advance from the south. 6 men were killed. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry_Hoofhearted Posted 5 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2018 3 minutes ago, Henry_Hoofhearted said: You're right, my mistake. Grave 33 - sheet 57c. Q20.C.5.9. it is. T 4 minutes ago, MaxD said: Definitely Metz. War diary is clear. The battalion occupied Dessart Ridge just south of the village but were forced back in bounds in the face of the enemy's advance from the south. 6 men were killed. Max 5 minutes ago, MaxD said: Definitely Metz. War diary is clear. The battalion occupied Dessart Ridge just south of the village but were forced back in bounds in the face of the enemy's advance from the south. 6 men were killed. Max I have John's date of death as 22/03/18. Would this back up your findings? It would have been very near to the 1st day of the Spring offensive, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Exactly (forgot to put the date in my post!!). Extract from the war diary attached. You should be able to relate other places mentioned to the trench map. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry_Hoofhearted Posted 5 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2018 1 hour ago, dgibson150 said: Welcome to the Forum. I think you have mixed up the references. The grave number is 33 and the Sheet number is 57c. I will try and locate the reference. David Thanks, David, I really appreciate your help. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry_Hoofhearted Posted 5 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Thanks to David and Max, you are gentlemen. Now. So much to write up, so little time to do it............What time does the pub open? Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 This is the NLS map dated March 1918. https://maps.nls.uk/view/101465200 Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry_Hoofhearted Posted 5 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2018 22 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said: This is the NLS map dated March 1918. https://maps.nls.uk/view/101465200 Brian Thank you very much. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Oh good, same as the one I posted 5 hours ago! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Sorry Max. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Not at all, forgive me if that came across snippy, didn't mean it, always good to have confirmation. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Hi Andy, The 47 Division HQ (General Staff) diary (Ancestry link) has a couple of disposition maps which may be of interest. 8 PM - 21st March 1918 4.30 PM - 22nd March 1918 10 PM - 22nd March 1918 All images sourced from Ancestry.co.uk His Soldiers' Effects record says that John died from wounds, so it's possible that he might have been passed a short distance down the evacuation chain. There are some details about the medical arrangements that were in place in the war diary of the 47 Division Assistant Director Medical Services. The diaries will also be available from the National Archives from where they are far easier to download. Help on reading map references is here. If you haven't already seen them, John has some surviving service papers - Findmypast here (they should also be on Ancestry). There is a letter from his sister, which (to the best of her knowledge) says that he was serving in 'C' Company, 11th Platoon. John left a will - £10 from here. It may only consist of a very few words, and would come as a low resolution B&W scan of the original, as a pdf file. if you need a decent quality image of his gravestone, it looks like the good folk at British War Graves would be able to give you one (free of charge). There is good advice on researching a soldier on the Long, Long Trail - link. Good luck with your research. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteStarLine Posted 6 October , 2018 Share Posted 6 October , 2018 (edited) My mistake earlier, it is Sheet 57C as others have pointed out. Edited 6 October , 2018 by WhiteStarLine Duplicate image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 6 October , 2018 Share Posted 6 October , 2018 12 hours ago, MaxD said: Not at all, forgive me if that came across snippy, didn't mean it, always good to have confirmation. Max Thank you, yours is better than mine anyway. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 6 October , 2018 Share Posted 6 October , 2018 Chris Super additional information! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry_Hoofhearted Posted 7 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2018 On 05/10/2018 at 22:00, clk said: Hi Andy, The 47 Division HQ (General Staff) diary (Ancestry link) has a couple of disposition maps which may be of interest. 8 PM - 21st March 1918 4.30 PM - 22nd March 1918 10 PM - 22nd March 1918 All images sourced from Ancestry.co.uk His Soldiers' Effects record says that John died from wounds, so it's possible that he might have been passed a short distance down the evacuation chain. There are some details about the medical arrangements that were in place in the war diary of the 47 Division Assistant Director Medical Services. The diaries will also be available from the National Archives from where they are far easier to download. Help on reading map references is here. If you haven't already seen them, John has some surviving service papers - Findmypast here (they should also be on Ancestry). There is a letter from his sister, which (to the best of her knowledge) says that he was serving in 'C' Company, 11th Platoon. John left a will - £10 from here. It may only consist of a very few words, and would come as a low resolution B&W scan of the original, as a pdf file. if you need a decent quality image of his gravestone, it looks like the good folk at British War Graves would be able to give you one (free of charge). There is good advice on researching a soldier on the Long, Long Trail - link. Good luck with your research. Regards Chris Thanks, Chris. Excellent information. It has helped me a lot. You and the others may find this photo interesting. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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