CCS admissions

[TeeJF]

Hi everyone,

 

Does anybody know if the casualty clearing stations on the Western Front kept records of admissions, deaths, etc. and, if so, if they are available anywhere to view?

 

We're trying to find out more information about a relative, Alexander Livingston 200371 who died on 14/05/17 and is buried in Vlamertinghe Cemetery. We are not sure if he was injured and then died of his wounds, or if he was killed "immediately". As the cemetery is very close to what was the Hop Store CCS, rather than where the 1/4 South Lancs were that day, we wondered if he may have died whilst being treated there.

 

Any info will be gratefully received.

 

Tracy

Edited 8 September , 2018 by TeeJF

[ss002d6252]

They kept registers but the vast majority of the registers were destroyed after the war so it's hit and miss, with a lot of luck, as to whether or not they turn up in the surviving records.

The effects records show him as Killed in Action which usually indicates he did not enter the casualty chain whilst he was alive.

Craig

[TeeJF]

36 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

They kept registers but the vast majority of the registers were destroyed after the war so it's hit and miss, with a lot of luck, as to whether or not they turn up in the surviving records.

The effects records show him as Killed in Action which usually indicates he did not enter the casualty chain whilst he was alive.

Craig

 

Hi Craig,

 

Many thanks for your reply. I have checked the war diary and, apparently the casualties that day we are Savile Rd/Haymarket which I think are a couple of miles NE of Ypres. Might it be that he was injured but died en route at the CCS? It seems a long way to move a dead person to bury them?

 

Best regards, Tracy

[TEW]

I've checked the only possibe source for CCS records and Livingston does not show up.

 

CWGC website doesn't indicate a CCS at Vlamertinghe, it does mention Field Ambulances setting up there but not CCSs.

 

I see a reference to 'Hop Store CCS' taken from Wounded: From Battlefield to Blighty, 1914-1918 but Mayhew is describing 1915 not 1917, not even certain this is a factual reference.

 

1/4 South Lancs were 55 Division and their 3 field ambulances were set up as;

1/3 West Lancs, Hillhoek Divisional Rest Station

2/1 West Lancs, Red Farm MDS

2/1 Wessex, Red Farm MDS previously ADS Prison, Ypres.

 

The Red Farm MDS was handed over from 2/1 WL to 2/1 Wessex around 12th - 15th May.

 

So, I'm not convinced there was a CCS at Vlamertinghe in May 1917 and there are no Field Ambulance posts of his division there either.

 

Vlamertinghe Cemetery is en route from Ypres to Red Farm but with the KIA listing on Soldier's effects I'd have to agree with Craig and say he died in the front line somewhere or was 'brought in dead' to Ypres Prison ADS and later moved to Vlamertinghe Cemetery.

 

TEW

[TeeJF]

Hi TEW,

 

Many thanks for all the info you have replied with. It is most helpful and gratefully received.

 

Tracy

[TEW]

Tracy,

 

I checked in Vol II & Vol III of 'Medical Services General History' and a Brewery is mentioned as being 1 Mile west of Vlamertinghe. This must be the same as the 'Hop House' which gives its name to Hop House Cemetery.

 

Never anything more than Dressing Stations and Collecting Stations based at the Brewery/Hop House and had he been taken to the Brewey he would no doubt be buried in Hop House Cemetery.

 

TEW

[TeeJF]

5 hours ago, TEW said:

Tracy,

 

I checked in Vol II & Vol III of 'Medical Services General History' and a Brewery is mentioned as being 1 Mile west of Vlamertinghe. This must be the same as the 'Hop House' which gives its name to Hop House Cemetery.

 

Never anything more than Dressing Stations and Collecting Stations based at the Brewery/Hop House and had he been taken to the Brewey he would no doubt be buried in Hop House Cemetery.

 

TEW

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to look that up for me.

 

Best regards,

 

Tracy

[phil andrade]

It’s my supposition  that those who were mortally wounded and died during evacuation were posted as killed rather than died from wounds.  That’s hardly a confident assertion : my guess is that a lot depended on the scale and intensity of the action....with large numbers of dying men to contend with - and May 1917 certainly qualifies as extremely costly in lives - the segregation of killed and died from wounds was probably suspended by force of circumstance ; perhaps, in quiet periods, the unfortunate victims were afforded more meticulous categorisation as their fate was more conspicuous.

 

Phil

[Interested]

To concur with Phil's comment above;

The "Visitor Guide to Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery" states that KIA includes the injured who died during their evacuation to the hospital.

Presumably the categories were written by those medical staff who performed "triage" on incoming wounded.

There's a wonderful diagram labelled Map no. 8 showing the Stages of Evacuation from the Front Line to Remy Siding (later to become the Lijssenthoek Cemetery) and describing how long this took; three hours in quiet periods, six hours at night.

[gympiebrowns]

On 13/09/2018 at 23:14, Interested said:

To concur with Phil's comment above;

The "Visitor Guide to Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery" states that KIA includes the injured who died during their evacuation to the hospital.

Presumably the categories were written by those medical staff who performed "triage" on incoming wounded.

There's a wonderful diagram labelled Map no. 8 showing the Stages of Evacuation from the Front Line to Remy Siding (later to become the Lijssenthoek Cemetery) and describing how long this took; three hours in quiet periods, six hours at night.

 

hi would you happen to have a copy of the diagram, many thanks

[Interested]

I do have a photograph image (some small text not readable) , but in the Stad Poperinge publication the picture is copyrighted "(C) Australian Medical History", no date is given, and it looks to me as if the original would be out of copyright for UK Govt publications.

As yours is a non-commercial application you might be able use it.

 

[TeeJF]

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to look up so much great information for me. It is much appreciated.