Family Touring Goal Completed

[Herekawe]

Hi

I thought I would make a personal entry under battlefield touring about my last three trips to the Western Front, on each of these trips I have taken one of my three children with me. I am sure many of you will have done this but coming from NZ added a level of complexity.  It is an acknowledgment that the GWF and all the 1000s of your posts I have read really added scope and depth to these trips which I have to thank all members for. For someone coming from rural New Zealand and travelling to Vacquois for example, posts on the GWF are a source of up to date and useful information, about places very few in NZ have ever heard of.

 

 I had been to the Western Front before but in 2008 I decided then that I would bring my two sons and daughter on a trip each to see family and then take them on a trip to the Western Front as time and money allowed. First step was to join the GWF, literally. For the kids these trips were educational and a mark of respect to all those NZers who rest a long way from home.  With work, school and university holidays to consider it was only practical to do them separately and during July and August.

 

The first opportunity was in 2013, then due to a family issue again in 2014 and I have just returned from the third trip. For ease of organization each trip followed a similar pattern, spending time in the UK then travel from London to Lille on the train, hire a car, and drive around staying at modest hotels or B and Bs on the battlefields. Each time we stayed in Arras for two nights with a day trip to Paris catching the early train and returning late the same day; then eventually return to Lille and back to London.  Time was limited to 10-12 days so we could not see everything and concentrated on mainly ANZAC related areas, that leaves me some places to visit in future. One advantage of taking young adults is that as long as you feed and water them regularly they can keep going all day, so you get a lot done! No McDonalds local kai only.

 

Each trip was different and to make sure I saw different things each time the routes varied, (thanks GWF) but NZ related sites all got visits each time plus tried to take in a healthy variation of French, German and other points of interest as well.  Ypres, Zonnebeke,  Langemark, Polygon Wood, Messines, Plugstreet, Fromelles, Notre Dame de Lorrette, Vimy,  Arras (Wellington Caves) and “the Somme” got a through visit each time as did the Australian National Memorial at VB and we also travelled out and followed the 1918 path of the NZ Div past Bapaume and across country to Le Quesnoy each time. If it is in Peter Pedersen’s book “ANZACS on the Western Front” we have probably been there, plus several other authors will have done well out of this!

 

Further south we visited Ors, and another trip to “P’tit train de la haute Somme” was very good and Compiegne, Verdun and Chemin Des Dames all got visited a couple of times, and travelled as far south as Marfaux on the second trip. On this last trip after a couple of nights in Verdun we returned to Lille via the Herge Museum near Brussels and Waterloo.

 

I have also ended up visiting a lot of museums and cemeteries and if I visit again the whole Loo’s area is virtually untapped apart from visits to Dud Corner.

 

One of the other highlights has been that where ever we have gone, not speaking the local language the generally friendly and helpful reception we have had.

 

There were a few nay-sayers, children would be bored etc but there are plenty of opportunities for walking, running, biking, looking at shops, tunnels, caves, underground fortifications and so on as well as the fact it is actually all very interesting even when you think it might not be. So if you are thinking of taking your teenagers don’t hold back and if you are planning a family trip from the Antipodes don’t hesitate to get in touch.

[EAST YORKSHIRE]

I am lucky - I am an overnight ferry trip and then a short drive away from  the areas you mentioned, and I can see the ferry from my house almost!!  so it makes it very easy for me. What you (and other people who come from far away is a heck of a lot harder to do, so I take my hat off to you.. All the best  Ian.

[sassenach]

And of course those New Zealand soldiers came from further away than anyone. Hats off to them all from us Poms.  

[Fattyowls]

1 minute ago, sassenach said:

And of course those New Zealand soldiers came from further away than anyone. Hats off to them all from us Poms.  

 

From the uttermost ends of the earth as the New Zealand Memorials record. Great story James, thanks.

 

Pete.

 

P.S. Did you get a chance to check the water levels at Spanbroekmolen at all?

[Herekawe]

15 hours ago, Fattyowls said:

 

From the uttermost ends of the earth as the New Zealand Memorials record. Great story James, thanks.

 

Pete.

 

P.S. Did you get a chance to check the water levels at Spanbroekmolen at all?

 

 

Yes, well I have been involved in designing a some ponds mainly effluent or riparian ponds over the years so I do look at it each time I go and wonder about it. I assume, based on completely unscientific and subjective observations that springs or some sort of direct flow into the pond caused by the fissures of the explosion keeps it at a certain level, it does move up and down a bit. Being on a hill however there must be a bit of pressure involved with water coming into it, it appears to small a surface area, and with the rim the catchment is not great, given that Belgium is quite a dry country (by my standards). Hot summer like just past it must be losing a few mm of water per day off the surface.  Peckham and the other craters also look pretty good, so these ponds never dry out?

 

Of course if some benefactor wants to fund me (generously) in a 3 year study...............................?

Edited 9 September , 2018 by Herekawe
add a bit

[Fattyowls]

James, I have so missed speculating about the water level, it's like having an old friend drop by. I'm fairly sure it is being fed from below with the water under pressure from the layer above the blue clay that the Germans called the Schwimsand (sic). I got to meet Peter Doyle, who is a man who would know at the Forum conference in March but we spent most of our time talking about football. Schoolboy error.

 

Pete.

 

P.S. Keep us posted on the whole funding issue. It's a question that needs answering and you are the man to do it.

[SiegeGunner]

It's a long time since I translated German geological documents for 'Beneath Flanders Fields' (Peter Barton, Peter Doyle and Johan Vandewalle), but I remember the 'Schwimmsand' (two m's) ... a form of quicksand.  In fact it's so long ago that my translations are on floppy disks that I don't have any means of accessing any more.

[Fattyowls]

1 hour ago, SiegeGunner said:

It's a long time since I translated German geological documents for 'Beneath Flanders Fields' (Peter Barton, Peter Doyle and Johan Vandewalle), but I remember the 'Schwimmsand' (two m's) ... a form of quicksand.  In fact it's so long ago that my translations are on floppy disks that I don't have any means of accessing any more.

 

Thanks Mick, and if you ever need a floppy disk reader I have a USB one somewhere.

 

Pete.

[andrew pugh]

Hi Herekawe

I am sure there is a New Zealander soldier buried in the original battlefield part of Bancourt British Cemetery Northern France. 2 years ago we met a guy from New Zealand who was looking for the grave of the casualty with the surname of Pederson. He was killed during the August Offensive 1918 pushing the Germans back.

Regards

Andy 

[Herekawe]

2 hours ago, andrew pugh said:

Hi Herekawe

I am sure there is a New Zealander soldier buried in the original battlefield part of Bancourt British Cemetery Northern France. 2 years ago we met a guy from New Zealand who was looking for the grave of the casualty with the surname of Pederson. He was killed during the August Offensive 1918 pushing the Germans back.

Regards

Andy 

Thanks Andy that just leads me to one of my hobby horses. NZ placed memorials to its major battles in each area, and the memorials to the killed and missing in each area as close as possible to where they were killed.

 

Logically battlefield memorials then at Gravenstafel - right in the middle of the battlefields of 4th and 12th October, Messines bang smack in front of the town on the first two German bunkers they reached, and again on the ridge between High and Delville Woods - first objective on 15th Sept 1916.

 

But in many ways 1918 was the peak year for the NZ Division, arriving piecemeal and fighting hard to halt the German advance in the Serre area, capture of La Signy Farm with a set piece attack, then in August advancing, capture of Bapaume after a 3 day battle, then the advance across country and eventual capture of Le Quesnoy. Monument to the missing at Grevillers - covers a big area but seems sensible, Bancourt could have been on the short list, monument at Le Quesnoy which was a nice way to finish, but nothing between the Ancre and Bapaume which was where the heavy work was done?

 

Seems an odd omission which is not going to be addressed by a proposed museum at Le Quesnoy where the Division was only for a few days. 

 

Add it to the list of things to be looked into LOL.

 

James

[Marilyne]

Wouaou!!!

 

That's a great trip!!

congrats for the effort, ans especially to the kids for stiking to it too !!

 

Just tell us when you're around next time!!

 

M

[andrew pugh]

Hi James

The New Zealanders stopped the Germans on the 26th/27th March 1918 on the South east corner of the village of Auchonvillers which is to the south of La-Signy Farm. Glad you enjoyed your trip.I think every youngster should be encouraged to visit the battlefields of the Great War.

Regards

Andy

[Herekawe]

On 20/09/2018 at 23:37, andrew pugh said:

Hi James

The New Zealanders stopped the Germans on the 26th/27th March 1918 on the South east corner of the village of Auchonvillers which is to the south of La-Signy Farm. Glad you enjoyed your trip.I think every youngster should be encouraged to visit the battlefields of the Great War.

Regards

Andy

Hi Andy

 

We always walk x country that part of the battlefield, but apart from graves in cemeteries there is nothing to show the NZers passed that way. It must have been a while ago now but I believe there was some excavation done just outside the fence of the Newfoundland Memorial Park on the Auchonvillers side which revealed some NZ artifacts, buttons etc and about 2008 IIRC there was a few bits and pieces in the cabinets of the museum at the Newfoundland Mem Park, but I think these have disappeared now. First clashes as the NZers pushed up were in the area of the carpark I believe and there are references to making the Germans lives difficult by mortaring the crater, which I assume was Hawthorn ridge but no doubt plenty of other craters.

 

I have great respect for the young Canadians and the work they do at Vimy and Newfoundland Mem Park but my experience is that if you ask them about events other than 1st July 1916 or Easter 1917 that is outside their briefing, however, they are inevitably helpful and polite and a credit to their country.