German infantry records

[JWK]

 

15 hours ago, bcockburn said:

I'd much appreciate a translation of the page that mentions "the Kaiser!".

This one?

 

It's 2 books that caught his attention  (Barmherziger Kaiser :was published in 1916)

 

Barmherziger Kaiser!

Roman von Adam Müller-Guttenbrunn

Verlag L.  Staackmann, Leipzig

Aus denselben Verlage & von dem selben Verfasser

Der grosse Schwabenzug.

 

 

Merciful Kaiser!

Novel by Adam Müller-Guttenbrunn

Publisher L. Staackman, Leipzig

From the same publisher & from the same author

Der grosse Schwabenzug

 

https://www.zvab.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=22754174301&searchurl=hl%3Don%26tn%3Dbarmherziger%2Bkaiser%2Broman%26sortby%3D20%26an%3Dm%FCller%2Bguttenbrunn

 

http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/der-grosse-schwabenzug-5603/1

 

 

Edited 11 November , 2018 by JWK

[Bob Walker]

On 9/1/2018 at 10:29 PM, JWK said:

You can download "Histories of two hundred and fifty-one divisions of the German army which participated in the war (1914-1918)" (an American forces publication) here:

http://www.vlib.us/wwi/resources/germanarmywwi.pdf

49 MB

 

It has an abbreviated history of the 35th Infanterie Division (which included IR141): 3 pages, starting at pagenr 398 in the PDF file

I never thanked you for this...but I am now......very useful.....appreciate your help. 

[Bob Walker]

On 9/2/2018 at 9:57 PM, JWK said:

I'm sure I speak on behalf of the vast majority of the members here on this board (imagine North-Korean-election-results-majority) when I say : I'd lóve to see some of the pictures that your neighbour has discovered! And maybe some pages of the diaries? (No problem if they're in Sutterlin/deutsche Kurrent. We take that in our stride)

 

Also what's your neighbour's granddad's name? And does he know which village/city/town he came from?

Polish archives are being digitalised as we speak. You never know where it might lead. There's a lót of knowledge and resources around on this forum, you just have to ask.

I think this is a photo of some members of the 141st regt with captured Brits?  I'm not an expert but is that a Vickers machine gun? Interesting that the injured Tommy is smiling...presumably glad to be out of it. The rest - not so much. 

[Waddell]

That is a Lewis gun Bob.

 

Scott

[Bob Walker]

Ah. Of course. As I said..not an expert  

[bcockburn]

Another great photo, Bob!  I wonder what the white armbands meant that the Germans are wearing.  Are they members of a medical unit perhaps?

 

It's interesting to speculate about how these soldiers felt about posing for a photo along with their enemy.  The captured soldiers would certainly feel relief that they were now out of harm's way, but they were standing beside enemy men who had been doing their best to kill them only days (or perhaps only hours) earlier.  Perhaps they felt a grim respect for each other in that they, German and British soldiers, understood the hell of trench warfare infinitely better than the civilians (or the leaders) in their respective countries. The whole situation is so absurd, and tragic.

Edited 15 November , 2018 by bcockburn

[AOK4]

1 hour ago, bcockburn said:

Another great photo, Bob!  I wonder what the white armbands meant that the Germans are wearing.  Are they members of a medical unit perhaps?

 

It's interesting to speculate about how these soldiers felt about posing for a photo along with their enemy.  The captured soldiers would certainly feel relief that they were now out of harm's way, but they were standing beside enemy men who had been doing their best to kill them only days (or perhaps only hours) earlier.  Perhaps they felt a grim respect for each other in that they, German and British soldiers, understood the hell of trench warfare infinitely better than the civilians (or the leaders) in their respective countries. The whole situation is so absurd, and tragic.

 

The armbands are for the patrol only, to be able to quickly notice them as such in the dark no man's land. It is very normal to find German pics of these patrol groups with their booty.

[Bob Walker]

here's another 

 

am i right in saying the Tommies have no epaulettes or regimental ID?

 

[bcockburn]

The same four British prisoners.  I don't see any unit insignia that would help to identify them.  (They're unlikely to be Canadians since Canadian soldiers had  a rectangular division patch sewn to the sleave of their uniform, just below the shoulder.)  Does the photo album give any dates?

 

The two Tommies on the left look rather despondent at their situation.  The two on the right do not look displeased.

Edited 16 November , 2018 by bcockburn

[Bob Walker]

it's a bit confusing...all his photos ARE numbered on the back ....and a lot relate to diary entries..but some aren't in the diary..maybe missing pages 

[bcockburn]

Does the diary contain entries for the last months of the war?

[Bob Walker]

On 15/11/2018 at 20:40, bcockburn said:

Does the diary contain entries for the last months of the war?

im not sure as it only has day and months on it as far as i can see 

[Twl0704]

Fascinating thread.  Like Bill, I've been involved in a study and writing about actions in and around Monchy, so I can add a little information.

Firstly, the land is not as featureless as might appear.  In 1914, 1917 and 1918 (and 1940), the rolling ground between Monchy and Pelves provided a tactical problem to those involved in the fighting (whether on foot, horseback, or in tanks).

In the Aug 1918 battle, Pelves was squeezed between the 51st Highland Div north of the Scarpe and 3 Canadian south.  The primary units fighting near Pelves were from 7 Brigade: the 49th Edmonton Battalion and the PPCLI.  Since the Patricias were trying to push east, Pelves was on their flank and proved to be an insurmountable problem on the 26th.  On the 27th, Lt Col Stewart, CO of the PPCLI, despatched two trench clearing teams of about ten men and one or two officers each to try to clear the entire 2,000 metre trench from north of Monchy to the outskirts of Pelves.

The clearing was partially successful, but was pushed back when the Germans conducted a relief in place, with a depth unit coming forward to replace a unit in place.  The original units in place were probably 214th Division and the reinforcing units likely from 35th Division. 

This is the most likely point of contact between PPCLI and Pelves (and the Germans would have refered to Monchy or Bois du Sart for anything south and Boiry for anything east).  Neither the PPCLIs  history (nor a not entirely reliable memoir by Private Whiting, who was captured by "Wurttemburgers") mentions Lt "Lopston" as one of the attacking officers, but as scout officer he would have recieved any captured documents.  Lopston (in his various spellings) by the way was a remarkable character in his own right.  He was one of the elite university student reinforcements sent out in 1915 to the PPCLI and earned a Military Medal and selection for a commission for bravery in the field on the Somme.

As a final note, the blaming of units 'next door' for failure to hold is a common theme in regimental histories and a particualrly prevalent one in German histories.  Will Bird, the well-known Canadian diarist, made light of this German characteristic when he reviewed their works in translation in the 1930s.   If the 141st did pull out as many men as their record indicates, it is likely becasue they were able to withdraw in good order form Jigsaw Wood by means of the small valley that connects it back to the famous DQ Line and were the least engaged unti on the previous days' fighting. 

Terry