Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Equipment shedules for Army Troops Coys RE


JulianR

Recommended Posts

Does anyone know what  technical equipment Sapper Army Troops Companies were issued with, did they get Decauville light railway track and skips for instance?

 

Thanks

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Julian

 

Decauville stores were not part of an Army Troops company equipment schedule, however  some of these companies were occasionally employed in laying Decauville track.

 

TR

Edited by Terry_Reeves
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Terry,

 

I asked because three AT Coys in Salonika were all using Decauville equipment, or repairing it at some stage, at least two of these coys were working quarries to provide road stone, and at least two of them actually built Decauville railways.

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far  as I know, the decauville track came in pre built sections so that it could be put down without any specialist equipment. Presumably the RE companies would plan and survey the route, build a track base of stone and then lay the track sections, a bit like building a model railway. Once built the ASC ran the trains. My Grandfather's ASC company hand built decauville tractors from ford van chassis and ran them on the decauville line that followed the western edge of the struma valley.

Edited by Gardenerbill
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark,

 

Thanks, I know Decauville track comes preformed.  I was asking if the Army Troops Coys RE had Decauville track as part of their mobilisation stores as 287 AT Coy land in Salonika on 20th Sept, 1916 and begin the construction of the Mirova line on 27th Sept. There is no mention in their War Diary of them drawing specialist stores, and there is a reasonably detailed description of carrying out both the reconnaissance and preliminary surveys for the Decauville.   On 30th November, 1916 it was decided to build a branch line to Turica from the Mirova line, but all work was halted on 3rdFeb, 1917 as the Mirova line was no longer essential.  

 

 

Both 287, 139 and 286 AT Coys War Diaries all make mention of Decauville, either to repair of Decauville skips or using it to work quarries.  I did not see any mention of Decauville track etc., being specially delivered.

 

What I have not established is who actually operated the Mirova line.  In August 1917 273 Railway Construction Coy, RE were sent to upgrade the line, which was being operated by 16th Corps Decauville unit.  I have not come across such a unit and wondered if it was simply a mistake.

 

I am reasonably confident that 801 coy ASC did not operate it, I had their War Diary out recently, and there is no mention of them operating it.  I also found Lt. Waithman's record of service and he left Eton in 1902 at the age of 15 and went off to become a mechanical engineer.  I suspect that he took the chance to build a petrol tractor in his Workshops, tested it on the Mirova line, and when it was successful built more for the Struma Valley line.  Incidentally he was MID no long after building the petrol tractor.

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Julian,
I have photographed the 801st MT Coy war diary and the following is from my notes:
 
In November 1917 the 801st set up a light rail transport section and the Ford Tractors began pulling supply trains along the light railway line from K70 (Seres road) to Kopriva and Gumus Dere, at the northern end of the Struma valley.


The light rail transport section, under the command of  2/Lt A.E. Metcalfe Gibson, was brought up to strength in January 1918 when 8 drivers were transferred from 287 A.T. Company R.E. to join one who had arrived in December, making a total of 9 drivers, along with 10 other ranks from the 801st.

 

So the ASC definitely operated the Struma valley line, and presumably they also operated the Likovan to Mirova line, again probably a sub section of another ASC MT Coy, but were the drivers who transferred to the 801st locomotive drivers?


Going back to your question, I think the decauville equipment (track and rolling stock) would have been brought by ship into Salonika and stored at the ASC base depot at Kalamaria and the ASC would have transported it to the construction site, but this is supposition on my part, it could have been stored at the RE depot. If the MT Base depot (598 Coy) kept a war diary that might be worth a look according to Mike Young its WO 95 4948. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, 287 Coys War Diary only starts with them arriving in Salonika, we do not know if they came from Gallipoli or else where, nor do we know what trades they had.  I do know that men in France/Flanders and UK were sent to Longmoor or local training centres for training as petrol tractor drivers, rather than steam locomotive drivers, so suspect that the men sent from 287 Coy were petrol tractor drivers

 

I rather think that the Decauville track would have gone to the RE Base Stores.

 

Arthur Edward Metcalfe-Gibson was born in Ravenstonedale, Westmoreland and educated at Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge.  I have not found a record of service for him.

 

The last mule convoy on the Mirova line ran on 25th Oct, 1917.  

 

What is this Mike Young book?

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, JulianR said:

What is this Mike Young book?

 

'Army Service Corps 1902 1918' by Michael Young

 

I think this is an IWM photo that shows Turkish POWs building the Stavros light railway possibly under RE supervision.

 

349458005_TurkPOWsbuildinglightrlyStavros1917.jpg.72b1cded4bd9195539750df39f04e3da.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

 

'Army Service Corps 1902 1918' by Michael Young

 

I think this is an IWM photo that shows Turkish POWs building the Stavros light railway possibly under RE supervision.

 

349458005_TurkPOWsbuildinglightrlyStavros1917.jpg.72b1cded4bd9195539750df39f04e3da.jpg

Yes, it is and I might be able to work out which RE Coy is involved.  Interestingly, if you look in  the mid-distance there is an armoured  Simplex with a D Type Bogie waggon with a soldier standing in it, I suspect that the Simplex appears in IWM Q15139 which I will try and post below.1178317938_Q15139Stavrosline.jpg.d310a841eb55b5cecab34b73db4181f1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're right, I haven't seen that photograph before, the POW one is Q15133. Incidentally what do you mean by skips in this context?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4-wheeled tubs that can pivot about the top and tip a load sideways.  Photo attached, although it is from building the line to Ekaterini Lignite Mine, Q15158Q15158.jpg.366eba107e2cd84300bcb2346841702d.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The IWM Salonika Railway pictures are Q15121-Q15173

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the picture of the officers in the truck was taken on 3rd April, 1918 when Capt. Brown O.C. 273 Coy, Director of Railways, ADR(C) and Major Brierly Superintendent of Light Railways went over the line to Stravos.  Looking at the clothing being worn, April seems a likely date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Julian,

Are you aware of the article on the Salonika railways that appeared in the Railway Gazette in 1920? If not send me a PM with your email address and I will send you a copy. It won't answer your question but it does give a good account of the broad and narrow gunge railways used by the military in the Salonika campaign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark,

 

Yes, thanks.  I have just co-authored a major book on British Military Railways Overseas in the Great War, and that chapter was part of my source material.  I cannot currently post a link to the book as I haven't had enough posts on here.

 

By the way as you have a copy of 801 Coy War Diary can you check on 12th Sept.1918 and see who you think they handed the Petrol Tractors over too.  I think Lt. Putley of either 481 or 981 Coy, but cannot find War Diaries.

 

Thanks

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is information about BRITISH MILITARY RAILWAYS OVERSEAS IN THE GREAT WAR

http://www.borht.org.uk/WW1.htm

Ch 1, Introduction, 
Part 1. Belgium, France and Italy. 
Ch 2, The Work done by the Railway Troops in France during 1914-19. 
Ch 3, Railway Operation in France. 
Ch 4, Railway Workshops. 
Ch 5, War Department Light Railways. 
Ch 6, Forward Communications and Military Mine Railways. 
Ch 7, The Cross Channel Train Ferry Service. 
Ch 8, Empire Railway Troops on the Western Front. 
Ch 9, British Military Railway Work in Italy, 1917-18. 
Ch 10. The Mediteranean Line of Communication. 
Part 2. The Levant. 
Ch 11, British Military Railways in the Gallipoli Campaign. 
Ch 12, Railways in the Salonica Campaign. 
Ch 13, Military Railways in Egypt, Palestine and Syria in World War 1. 
Part 3. Middle East. 
Ch 14, Military Railways in the Mesopotamian Campaign 1914-1918. 
Ch 15, "Those Barren Rocks": The Building of the Aden Railway during World War 1. 
Ch 16, Persia. 
Part 4. Africa. 
Ch 17, Military Railways in East Africa in World War 1. 
Ch 18. West Africa. 
Ch 19. The Campaign in German South West Africa. 
Part 5. Southern Ocean Islands 
Ch 20, Southern Ocean Islands. 
Part 6. Locomotives and Rolling Stock. 
Ch 21, Broad Gauge Locomotives. 
Ch 22, Ambulance Trains. 
Ch 23. Armoured Trains. 
Ch 24, R.O.D. Broad Gauge Rolling Stock on the Western Front. 
Ch 25, Metre Gauge Locomotives and Rolling Stock. 
Ch 26. Narrow Gauge Locomotives and Rolling Stock. 
Part 7. The Aftermath. 
Ch 27, The British Army of the Rhine 1919-1929. 
Ch 28, Russia. 
Ch 29, Railway Policy in Relation to General Policy in the Middle East. 
Part 8. Epilogue. 
Ch 30, W.W.1 Preservation.

 

JulianR, with 45 posts I cannot see why you could not post a link. Perhaps you could try a new topic in Books and Book Reviews, to inform more members.

Cheers

Maureen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maureen,

 

I looked up how to post a link, but it said I had to have 50 posts, will try it later.

 

Thanks

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, JulianR said:

By the way as you have a copy of 801 Coy War Diary can you check on 12th Sept.1918 and see who you think they handed the Petrol Tractors over too.  I think Lt. Putley of either 481 or 981 Coy, but cannot find War Diaries.

 

I don't think 481 or 981 companies are mentioned but will have a look when I get home this evening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The entries in the 801st war diary for the 12th and 13th September 1918 are as follows:

 

12/9/18 
Lorries coy duties 2 on detachment 3 detail 1  Coy cars duty 1 on det 1
Tractors detail 1 repairs 2.  Attached cars repairs 5.
Received orders from A.A.M.G. 16th Corps to move camp to Gramatna commencing
on 14/9/18. Ordered to dump all building material at R.E. Dump and carry
stores & equipment. Reported to D.S.T. Salonika.

 

13/9/18
Coy lorries duty 2 detail 1 Det 0 Tractors detail 5 repairs 1 
Attached cars repairs 1. Attached cycles 1. Pr returns to B.M.T.D.
Received orders from 16th C.H.Q. to hand over Decauville Tractors & detail to
O.C. 781 M.T. Coy. Visited Gramatna & chose site for a camp.
Loading of Coy stores commenced application for lorries to assist in moving
made to L.T.O. who stated he was unable to help as all available lorries
were required for duty by 16th Corps.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good thank you, I need new eyes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/08/2018 at 19:12, JulianR said:

Unfortunately, 287 Coys War Diary only starts with them arriving in Salonika, we do not know if they came from Gallipoli

The company first appears in the Orders of Battle in September 1916, in Salonika, so they did not serve at Gallipoli as a unit. Some of their men may have served there in other units.

 

Ron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read their War Diary, and all it says that they landed at Salonika on 20th Sept, 1916, and unlike other War Diaries does not state where they were formed.  For instance 117 Railway Coy RE War Diary says that they were formed at Longmoor, whereas 200 Railway Construction Coy RE state that they were formed in theatre, so I would tend to believe that 287 Coy were formed in UK, 117 Coy had arrived in Salonika about two days earlier, so is it that 287 Coy sailed in the same convoy and just landed two days later when the opportunity arose?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...