Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Unknown men, unknown date! Any help?


Stephen Nulty

Recommended Posts

This is part of a picture that I have showing a group of men in the UK. I don't know who they are or when it was taken, though I do know it was in Prescot (my home town) in Lancashire.

 

The old Watch Factory in Prescot had been the base of the 17th King's (Liverpool) Regiment from September 1914 to April 1915 and it was then used for other units throughout the war, so I suppose they could be from any number of different units.

 

I'd be grateful if any uniform experts could perhaps give me a clue

 

Cheers

Snap 2018-07-24 at 12.55.12.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No cap badges ?

 

Can't seem to see any obvious wound stripes, ribbons, overseas chevrons etc so it suggest it was earlier in the war rather than later.

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Craig

 

Yes, I thought it had an "early in the war" feel about it, but also noticed the lack of badges or other insignia. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The chap 4th from the right, if my eyes tell me right, looks like a bottom of a bugle horn??? LI Regt blacked badge, rifles??

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The famous 'ruptured duck' cap badges had all been issued by the end of 1914 so perhaps before this date?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're not carrying SMLEs as far as I can see, and they have the 1914 leather equipment (I think). The buttons might be black and I think they might have cap badges (there's certainly a circular-looking blemish on several of the caps where a badge might be).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They seem to have a quartermaster sale of equipment, with a mixture of valise and 03 bandolier and not all of it matching.

I'm almost seeing 03 greatcoat carriers holding up valise pouches on locket belts, the overall effect is magnificently 'orrible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The men in the back look all quite young - perhaps the younger men left behind by a battalion or some sort of cadets that got the stuff the QM dragged out from the back of the store room.

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Majority of the lads second row all have kitbags by their feet, so on or just returned from travels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
4 hours ago, Dragoon said:

The chap 4th from the right, if my eyes tell me right, looks like a bottom of a bugle horn??? LI Regt blacked badge, rifles??

 

Chris

I can see a bugle too, my initial thoughts were SOMLI but as far as I can see, they weren't in that neck of the woods. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6th Bn kings Liverpool maybe?......

 

Chris

 

s-l400.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rifles are CLLEs (Charger Loading Lee-Enfields) after the introduction of the MkIII SMLE in 1907 this modification was introduced to allow the use of Charger clips of 5 rounds on earlier rifles. The foresight protector wings are not present on MLEs and are diagnostic.

CLLEs were very common in territorial units in 1914/5 which gives a 1908-1915 window.

As noted the mix of 1903 Bandolier equipment earlier patterns suggests this is a 1914-early 15 mobilization or K1 picture to me.

Chris

Edited by 4thGordons
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the feedback and suggestions

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Territorial Force battalion I think with key evidence from the rifles and mixture of equipment noted by T8Hants.  My bet would be on the black badge and buttons (inherited from their RVC origins) of the 6th Kings (Liverpool), as suggested by Dragoon.  The photo seems typical of the early days of auxiliary forces mobilisation and embodiment.

Edited by FROGSMILE
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that :-)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Stephen Nulty said:

Thanks for that :-)

 

 

Some very young soldiers apparent, and no doubt some underage for legal deployment to F&F. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chap on the left has a rifle in his right hand and a swagger stick in his left hand. Must have been fun to watch when the order to "slope" was given...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 24/07/2018 at 14:29, Steven Broomfield said:

(there's certainly a circular-looking blemish on several of the caps where a badge might be).

Some troops in the Liverpool pals, with no cap badge, sewed a button where the badge should be. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
On 26/07/2018 at 19:12, IanA said:

Some troops in the Liverpool pals, with no cap badge, sewed a button where the badge should be. 


They would have been a unit converted to the new Training Reserve, who were ordered to wear buttons in their caps, and coincidentally with a piece of scarlet cloth behind, just as with the cap badges of 6th King’s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like what every one has said about this interesting photograph, and now armed with the knowledge of the comments made, I am drawn to think there are a cadet unit early in the War from a private school, the front three are all supporting L/Cpl Chevron's, however, the one with the swagger stick and facial hair is wearing his equipment with a degree of professionalism and look older, where the two his left look like a sack of potatoes. 

Stephen you mention that this a bit of a larger photograph, are you able to post the whole photograph there may be other clues waiting to be discovered?

The equipment worn I believe is the Home Service Bandolier 1903 Pattern and the rifles are the 1895 Lee-Enfield and the 1888 Pattern Bayonet just visible on soldier right.

I have posted a photograph taken at the KOSB Depot between circa 1903 -1908, illustrating the very same equipment being worn with a mixture of 1887 Lee-Metford and 1895 Lee-Enfield rifles. After research and using local newspapers I was able to put a time frame when this photograph was take, (The Regimental Museum had no record of it) the Colonel of the Regiments Annual Parade, where the depot troops were inspected and LS&GC were presented, not Warrant Officer in full Dress far right wearing Kilmarnock Bonnet and medals. PS The soldiers are waring clothe regimental titles, 1908 saw the introduction of brass regimental titles to KOSB.

Cheers

Hiram

KOSB310.jpg

KOSB316.jpg

KOSB313.jpg

Edited by Glengarry1950
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...