"Two K.O.S.B. Officers – Both Military Cross Winners- 1.named Capt Abbott"

[GWF1967]

Hi,

 I purchased this photograph without properly reading the description. It's an old copy of a photo held, I'm told, in the NAM collection.

  Written on the back of the photograph are the following details "K.O.S.B. Capt. B. Abbott (6-Bttn.)", I can find a medal roll for a Lt B. Abbott - K.O.S.B.on Ancestry, but no MIC. a 1918 Army list has " B. Abbott. Field Officers of the Militia actively employed; Rank. Captain"     FMP has 17 K.O.S.B. men named Abbott (No "B").  I can find nowt in the LG.

 The Capt. has a wound stripe, and also appears to have overseas service stripes like the 2Lt.  Can anyone help with any information to (correctly?)identify him, or both men please.

 

 

[IPT]

There is a commission for cadet Bernard Abbott in the LG of 1917 -  https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30047/supplement/4201/data.pdf

 

He went abroad in May 1916 as 5327 A&SH.  Later Captain KOSB. Address on MIC - 95/97 High Street, Berwick-upon-Tweed.

 

MIC on Ancestry - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A000001-01366?pid=3916&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DqPk543%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26qh%3D1N4hEhJ8fzUrp49i6iF/Kw%3D%3D%26db%3DMedalRolls%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3Dbernard%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dabbott%26gsln_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Didw%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D1%26h%3D3916%26recoff%3D9%2010%26ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qPk543&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

 

He appears to have been employed as a Dental Surgeon in 1923 - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32846/page/4993/data.pdf

 

He received the freedom of Berwick-upon-Tweed in 1927 - http://www.berwickfriends.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Berwick-Honorary-Freedom-1920-1927.pdf

 

However, I can't see an MC for him.

Edited 14 July , 2018 by IPT

[GWF1967]

21 hours ago, IPT said:

There is a commission for cadet Bernard Abbott in the LG of 1917 -  https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30047/supplement/4201/data.pdf

 

He went abroad in May 1916 as 5327 A&SH.  Later Captain KOSB. Address on MIC - 95/97 High Street, Berwick-upon-Tweed.

 

MIC on Ancestry - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A000001-01366?pid=3916&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DqPk543%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26qh%3D1N4hEhJ8fzUrp49i6iF/Kw%3D%3D%26db%3DMedalRolls%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3Dbernard%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dabbott%26gsln_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Didw%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D1%26h%3D3916%26recoff%3D9%2010%26ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qPk543&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

 

He appears to have been employed as a Dental Surgeon in 1923 - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32846/page/4993/data.pdf

 

He received the freedom of Berwick-upon-Tweed in 1927 - http://www.berwickfriends.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Berwick-Honorary-Freedom-1920-1927.pdf

 

However, I can't see an MC for him.

Thanks for looking IPT; 

 I couldn't find an MC for him either.

    Both men appear to be sporting 9th Scottish Div. patches so 6th KOSB would fit, nothing else seems right! 

Hopefully someone will recognize him.

[charlie962]

There is a 2nd Lt B Abbott KOSB wounded cas list 1/10/17

[IPT]

2 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

There is a 2nd Lt B Abbott KOSB wounded cas list 1/10/17

 

That fits the freedom info.

 

Joined 1915 - Wounded 1916 Somme - Wounded 1917 Ypres -
Commsioned March 1917 - Demobilized 1919 (Nov.)
[Council minutes 24 May 1927. Ref. no. 503.]

[charlie962]

FWR have an ArmyList 1918 extract   'Temp 2ndLt B Abbott, 6 Bn KOSB, seniority date 28/3/17'

[GWF1967]

On 14 July 2018 at 23:24, charlie962 said:

FWR have an ArmyList 1918 extract   'Temp 2ndLt B Abbott, 6 Bn KOSB, seniority date 28/3/17'

Thanks for looking. 

 I think the lack of an MC award for Abbott points to Misidentification. 

[gmac101]

I have a copy of Stair Gillons history of the KOSB in the Great War and B Abbott doesn’t appear in the index of names and a quick check of the 6th Btn chapter doesn’t reveal any mention.  Good luck in your search

[GWF1967]

On 16 July 2018 at 22:39, gmac101 said:

I have a copy of Stair Gillons history of the KOSB in the Great War and B Abbott doesn’t appear in the index of names and a quick check of the 6th Btn chapter doesn’t reveal any mention.  Good luck in your search

Thank you. 

[Guest]

On 14/07/2018 at 00:15, GWF1967 said:

It's an old copy of a photo held, I'm told, in the NAM collection.

 

   There is nothing obviously jumping out from the NAM online catalogue of photographs. Have you asked them?

Edited 17 July , 2018 by Guest

[GWF1967]

There is nothing obviously jumping out from the NAM online catalogue of photographs. Have you asked them?

No. I also looked at the online catalogue. 

 "Somewhere in England" at present;   one to chase up when next home though. 

[corisande]

How about this

 

[corisande]

 

 

[corisande]

There is what appears to be a correct family tree on Ancestry at this location - click. He appears to be an only child. I thought the other officer could have been abrother, but apparently not so

[charlie962]

What about the MC  in the first photo?

[GWF1967]

53 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

What about the MC  in the first photo?

You just beat me to it.

 This chap here,

7 hours ago, corisande said:

How about this

 

seems to bear a striking similarity to this chap here, who is  sporting all the correct badges patches wound stripe etc. belonging to Capt. Bernard Abbott, 6th KOSB. with the embellishment of what appears to be the ribbon of the MC.  

 

I'm making a habit of this,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 July , 2018 by GWF1967

[GWF1967]

13 hours ago, corisande said:

There is what appears to be a correct family tree on Ancestry at this location - click. He appears to be an only child. I thought the other officer could have been abrother, but apparently not so

Thank you. Your help is greatly appreciated. 

[charlie962]

The newspaper above shows Bernard Abbott wounded 1916 and again 1917.

The man in the post1 photo with the MC has only one wound stripe and is a Captain.

Despite the striking resemblance perhaps they are not the same man?

 

Charlie

[mancpal]

This may be complete bunkum but has the seated officer lost the right leg below the knee? Somehow his trouser leg doesn’t seem to hang correctly and I can’t make out an ankle protruding from it (trick of the light?). 

The only other thing I noted is the standing officer may well have been left handed as he wears his watch on the right wrist (admittedly no help whatsoever!).

 

Simon

[GWF1967]

On 20/07/2018 at 06:25, mancpal said:

This may be complete bunkum but has the seated officer lost the right leg below the knee? 

 

I'd say no; it looks like both legs are present in the photo. 

On 20/07/2018 at 06:25, mancpal said:

 

The only other thing I noted is the standing officer may well have been left handed as he wears his watch on the right wrist (admittedly no help whatsoever!).

 

Simon

No help, but an interesting observation. 

  Thanks.

[GWF1967]

Bumping this thread, 

 I was flicking through "British Battle Insignia" - Mike Chappell, and  I chanced upon the same photograph (P.46) described as  “Two officers of the King’s Own Scottish Borderers photographed in Cologne, 1919, wearing the signs of 9^th Div; a silver thistle pinned through a blue disc”. (R.G. Harris collection).

 A look on National Archive shows the K.O.S.B. museum hold the 6th battalion War Diary, I have emailed the museum to see if they can help to identify the two officers.