1st/4th Norfolk Regiment in Palestine, June 1918

[zachariah1962]

I'm trying to find out where the village that was attacked by "A" company, 1st/4th Norfolk Regiment on 19th June, 1918, is located.

In the War Diary, it is given as "Kawaktepe". But, after having scoured maps both modern and contemporary, I cannot find it's location.

I am guessing it is/was probably South West of Nablus, but i'm not certain.

Can anybody advise me on this?

The name appears more Turkish than Arabic and i'm wondering if this might have been the name given to the position by the local Turkish

forces, rather than the actual name of the village.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Ian

[michaeldr]

1 hour ago, zachariah1962 said:

In the War Diary, it is given as "Kawaktepe". But, after having scoured maps both modern and contemporary, I cannot find it's location.

I am guessing it is/was probably South West of Nablus, but i'm not certain.

 

Ian,

can you help by putting this in context and mention where they were immediately before this action, and immediately after 

 

Michael

 

edit to add: 

The name appears more Turkish than Arabic and i'm wondering if this might have been the name given to the position by the local Turkish

forces, rather than the actual name of the village.

The name certainly sounds Turkish and I wonder if an old Norfolk veteran of the Gallipoli Campaign applied it in Palestine; they'd have been familiar with Kavak Tepe from the Suvla fighting

Edited 18 June , 2018 by michaeldr

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, zachariah1962 said:

I'm trying to find out where the village that was attacked by "A" company, 1st/4th Norfolk Regiment on 19th June, 1918, is located.

In the War Diary, it is given as "Kawaktepe". But, after having scoured maps both modern and contemporary, I cannot find it's location.

 

 

The history of the Norfolk Regiment gives details of the raid and names it as Kayak Tepe. It was not a village but is described as a 'hangar'. The approach was from Wadi Rabah, but they came under fire from Jevis Tepe.

I think you need a trench map which was Fejja (C.3.)1/40000

http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A3980

The Wadi Rabah is shown on this map at square M with Jevis Tepe just to the North.  I can't see Kayak or Kavak Tepe but it's probably around there somewhere, in machine gun range at least!

 

Jevis Tepe was eventually captured later as described here p.127

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LG2cG5SshpEC&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=jevis+tepe&source=bl&ots=64NzL7829m&sig=uaAwCmb6MmDty6bLnbnQjOxyY60&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYxKuIqt3bAhVFC8AKHUKqBBEQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=jevis tepe&f=false

 

Ken

[zachariah1962]

Hello Ken,

Thank you very much. It makes things much clearer and at least I can see the arear that the Norfolks' were operating.

I really appreciate your time and effort.

Best wishes.

Ian 

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, zachariah1962 said:

Hello Ken,

Thank you very much. It makes things much clearer and at least I can see the arear that the Norfolks' were operating.

I really appreciate your time and effort.

Best wishes.

Ian 

 

You’re welcome, sorry but dreaded predictive text at it again, I meant ‘sangar ‘ not ‘hangar’!

 

BW

Ken

[Guest]

Mates,

 

Sorry but does that mean they attacked the trenches on the hill shown on top of the"M" or the trenches around Point 456, or to the trenches north east around the "A".

 

Cheers

S.B

[michaeldr]

The history is available on line here 

http://lib.militaryarchive.co.uk/library/infantry-histories/library/The-Norfolk-Regiment-1685-1918-Vol-2/HTML/index.asp#/186/zoomed

which may help

Edited 19 June , 2018 by michaeldr

[kenf48]

18 hours ago, stevebecker said:

Mates,

 

Sorry but does that mean they attacked the trenches on the hill shown on top of the"M" or the trenches around Point 456, or to the trenches north east around the "A".

 

Cheers

S.B

 

Unfortunately the hill referred to as Kayak or Kavak Tepe is not shown on the map which is dated July 1918 with annotations September 1918 (i.e. the later successful assault).

 

The history describes the action as a ‘driving raid’.  The party started at 7.45p.m., reaching Wadi Rabah at 9.30pm. when their approach was discovered by the Turks.  The history (presumably referenced by the war diary) states they faced due east and moved up the slopes of Kayak Tepe.  They were met by heavy fire from Kayak Tepe and Jevis Tepe, later ‘some Turks came up from Wadi Rabah’.

 

 

We don't know how far they advanced along Wady Rabah but I would guess they climbed out at a point where the Wadi is closest to the Turkish front line).  They then faced East which would put them facing the trenches or sangars at the top of the 'M'.   At Company strength  I doubt they would have attempted to raid the longer line of trenches to the North, but your guess is as good as mine.  In the history it is reported they took the first sangar and then moved on to the next one on the right. The feature on the map does show two distinct positions at that location.  Equally there are two distinct features, or strong points, on the trenches to the North East of the A and a clear field of fire to this location from Jevis Tepe, but would Turks come up from Wady Rabah to that location?  They would also have to negotiate the longer line of trenches, perhaps this is where the fire came from in the general direction of Jevis Tepe, or towards the base of hill rather than the top where no positions are shown.

 

It does seem a rather futile action perhaps prompted by a similar, earlier raid the week before by ‘C’ and ‘D’ Companies on Buried (Bureid on the map) Ridge when they discovered it was not occupied, and returned by Wadi Haram without loss.

 

To put the action in context the previous five months had been a quiet period when the Battalion had been engaged in training and preparation for the final battles, and had been receiving  reinforcements, which suggests this was as much a 'training' operation as an attempt to influence the conflict although it probably became more costly than anticipated.  Shortly afterwards the Battalion moved away from the area.

 

As I say your guess is as good as mine but if I had to come down to it I'd go for the strongpoint at the top of the M, well detached from the main line relatively lightly defended (they allegedly bayoneted fifteen Turks in the first sangar on the left) and the opportunity to grab a couple of prisoners and leg it back to the Wady Rabah and cover.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

[rob carman]

This is an interesting and helpful thread.  Thank you.

 

A Capt and two Lts led the raid. Capt Steel was killed ouitright and Lt Andrew Camilleri was was wounded at about midnight and was admitted to 1/2 East Anglian Field Ambulance at 04.00 h where he was recorded as having "paralysis of thigh" and a GSW to the lumbar spine.  In short timer he received 500 units of anti-tetanus antiserum, 1/4 grain of morphine by mouth,  and then  a second round of antiserum.  There was concern that he had internal abdominal wounds and so his urine was monitored for signs of  blood.  None was seen. A year he was still receiving medical attention as the bullet remained lodged close to his spine.  In 1924 his pension (42 UK/year) was renewed indefinitely.

 

The information and image are from an online auction site.

 

Rob.

Edited 21 June , 2018 by rob carman
correction of error

[Guest]

Mates,

 

I was looking for the Ottoman units to faced this raid and could possibly be the Ottoman 7th Div around Kefr Kasim?

 

Is that the Kasim Wood shown on that map?

 

The maps I have show the Ottoman 21st Regt around that area with the 19th Regt on it left, and 20th Regt on its right.

 

The last Div strength is shown as - shown May 1918 Allied reports (1950 men 150 cav 60 MG's) thats fighting strength not total strength

 

This was part of the German Asia Corps with the 16th Div next to it on its left.

 

The Regt strength of the 21st Regt is unknown, but the last strength return in Sept gives us this shown Sept 1918 Allied reports (66 MG's) 19th Regt (700 men) 20th Regt (440 men)  21st Regt (580 men) attack/storm Co (70 men) Div Cav (150 cav)

 

So the 21st Regt must of had around the 500+ with around 22 MG's to hold its defences 

 

Cheers

S.B

Edited 21 June , 2018 by stevebecker

[GCMalta]

Dear all,

 

I have just stumbled across this fascinating thread and the wealth of information it contains. My interest in this action primarily revolves around Lieutenant Camilleri, who as stated in the above post was badly wounded (the regimental history states that this occurred 'early in the advance') during the action. However, in my research I have never come across the above details as regards his wounds. I would be very grateful if anyone could point me towards the source of all this information. Naturally, any other information regarding Lieutenant Camilleri would be most welcome. I am aware of his place and date of birth, date of marriage and date of death, but not much beyond that I'm afraid.

 

Thanks and regards

[rob carman]

11 hours ago, GCMalta said:

I have never come across the above details as regards his wounds. I would be very grateful if anyone could point me towards the source of all this information.

The information and image I posted were from ebay.  I noticed the Camilleri lot for sale on 18 June 2018. 

 

Rob.

[rob carman]

Dear GCMalta,  I have sent two messages to you directly .  Let me know if you can open them.  There is or was  a rule about new members needing to make a threshold number of posts, possibly 5, before they can use pm system.  I don't know if that bars you from receiving incoming.  Rob.

[GCMalta]

1 hour ago, rob carman said:

Dear GCMalta,  I have sent two messages to you directly .  Let me know if you can open them.  There is or was  a rule about new members needing to make a threshold number of posts, possibly 5, before they can use pm system.  I don't know if that bars you from receiving incoming.  Rob.

 

Dear Rob,

 

Thank you for your PMs. Have replied.

 

Regards