Bibby Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Hi there, I had an ancestor die in France and Flanders during his service in the Durham Light Infantry as a private. It says he was killed in action on 2nd January 1918. I was just wondering in what battle he could have been killed on that date? I do not know what was going on at that specific time in 1918 in France. Thanks if you can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 There are a lot of "ancestors". If you give his name - and anything else you know - you may be in with a chance of getting an answer. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 J Carr or C Mckenzie? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 (edited) Three DLI who died on 2 Jan 18 are listed on the CWGC website: Edited 13 May , 2018 by Gareth Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibby Posted 13 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2018 6 minutes ago, MaxD said: J Carr or C Mckenzie? Max James Carr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Originally 4th Bn Durham Light Infantry but according to CWGC he transferred to the Labour Corps (19th Company). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibby Posted 13 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2018 13 minutes ago, Gareth Davies said: Three DLI who died on 2 Jan 18 are listed on the CWGC website: Wow, this is amazing! Thank you so much! Is it likely he died in Belgium then if he was buried at Birr Cross? Also, is 'I. G. 21.' a specific grave location/identification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Yes. And yes. In July 1917 Birr Cross was only just behind the British front line but by Nov 17 we had moved the line to the east as a result of the 3rd Battles of Ypres. I have marked the location with a (big) black blob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Gareth has given the location. The reference is to the grave location in the cemetery Plot 1 Row G Grave 21. The extract above that Gareth posted is from the Commonwealth war Graves Commission site. This zooms in on his entry https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?initial=j&lastName=carr&cemetery=BIRR%2BCROSS%2BROADS%2BCEMETERY&war=1 Click on the right arrow and there will be more details including where you can download a commemorative certificate. You could also ask Britishwargraves.co.uk for a photo of his headstone. The original question is more difficult to answer. The Labour Company to which he had been transferred did not keep an individual diary. In any event, his employment at that time was not as a front line soldier and there were no "named" battles to which one could attribute his death. If some one knows what Labour Group 19 Company was in we might get somewhere. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Bibby Where did your James Carr come from? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibby Posted 13 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2018 44 minutes ago, MaxD said: Gareth has given the location. The reference is to the grave location in the cemetery Plot 1 Row G Grave 21. The extract above that Gareth posted is from the Commonwealth war Graves Commission site. This zooms in on his entry https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?initial=j&lastName=carr&cemetery=BIRR%2BCROSS%2BROADS%2BCEMETERY&war=1 Click on the right arrow and there will be more details including where you can download a commemorative certificate. You could also ask Britishwargraves.co.uk for a photo of his headstone. The original question is more difficult to answer. The Labour Company to which he had been transferred did not keep an individual diary. In any event, his employment at that time was not as a front line soldier and there were no "named" battles to which one could attribute his death. If some one knows what Labour Group 19 Company was in we might get somewhere. Max Thanks so much for this info Max! James Carr was born about 1874 in Black Hill, Durham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 OK, I was looking for any more info there may have been about him and there is a bit of an anomaly with two James Carrs, both in the DLI and with similar numbers. Your man started out in 2nd Battalion DLI (source LC Roll) and the CWGC may be in error as to his battalion. The other was in 4th Battalion discharged unfit with an address in Kent.. The service records for both did not survive the bombing in the second war so not really worth digging further into. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibby Posted 13 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Ah yes, I found a WW1 record with a service near Barnard Castle in Newcastle area, and yes I saw that he was discharged. But they crossed out his family members, which made me think they recorded the wrong soldier's details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 (edited) That's yet another James Carr! Not surprising the system got in a muddle! The book "Soldiers who died in the Great War" has your man's entry (Blackhill) but has his DLI number as 9021. That man and number appears in the few medical records that survive, being treated in 18 General Hospital on the coast in France in 1915/16. There are pencil notes that indicate the time period was 1-22 August 1915 (as it is only an index book, the detail will be in another that hasn't been digitised). That shows his battalion as 2nd Battalion (as does the Labour Corps medal roll) - they lost many men wounded in early August 1915. Given the anomalies it is best to stick to one set of information and ignore the rest! His number whatever it was and his age does suggest he was a pre-war regular soldier, does the family info say anything about that? Max Edited 13 May , 2018 by MaxD Addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 The effects records show he was #10813 at the time of his death - the war gratuity of £18 10s (net), £22 10s (gross) would give 41 months qualiying service. This indicates enlistment in the month from 3 Sep 1914. Monies were paid to a Sarah Kennedy (possibly a sister). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Looks like he was James Henry Carr, living in Buckham Street in 1891. He was one of the small percentage of men around Blackhill who were either miners or iron/streel workers for Consett Iron Works. Buckham Street wasn't far from the train station should I'd expect that is where he was a goods porter (he lived just across the street from the house my parents used to live in). By 1901 he had moved up being a railway shunter in the goods yard, most likely the goods yard at the station rather than the Iron Works. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 #9021 is too late for it to fit as a regular and too early for it to be a territorial (which, off the top of my head, only got to about 6XXX or so in the DLI). I suspect it was a special reserve number #9048 was issued to a 4th Bn man on a special reserve enlistment on 22 Aug 1914. #9089 was issued to a 4th Bn man on a special reserve enlistment on 14 Aug 1914. #9502 was issued to a 4th Bn man on a special reserve enlistment on 8 Sep 1914. The numbers for the 4th Bn for SR men don't seem to have been issued in strictly number order but I'd expect that he was a special reservist. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibby Posted 13 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2018 22 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: The effects records show he was #10813 at the time of his death - the war gratuity of £18 10s (net), £22 10s (gross) would give 41 months qualiying service. This indicates enlistment in the month from 3 Sep 1914. Monies were paid to a Sarah Kennedy (possibly a sister). Craig Yes, that is the correct James! He had married a Catherine McGuiggan, and she died in 1917. They had two children, James Bernard Carr and Catherine Carr. James Bernard was being looked after by Sarah Kennedy (don't know her relation to James? Maybe a friend?) after his death. So I guess he is the correct James Carr that died 2nd Jan 1918? I haven't been able to find him before 1902 (his marriage), as there were too many James Carrs in 1891, and I couldn't say for certainty which one he was. So I don't know if James Henry Carr in 1891 is him or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Craig I have sent a message. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 Craig's info is valuable clarification. The nub is - is the man who died 2 Jan 1918 your man? I would say yes despite the number confusion. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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